Daria Spiridonova will compete at her first World Championships this autumn. Picture : RGF
Here is a paraphrased translation of a comment by Natalia Kalugina on her Facebook page :
'Aliya has confidence in competition and she is, kind of, a coach to this team. In Europe she succeeded in this role and she has told the coaches that she even liked it. The main fighting force will be Kharenkova, Sosnitskaya and Spiridonova. Accordingly, the strongest apparatus will be beam (Marina Bulashenko With God!). The Chinese women, of course, have been known to win that apparatus, but if one falls, they all fall.
Alla Sosnitskaya could compete in the vault final, and - in theory - on the floor. On bars, of course, Russia will probably lose to the Chinese women, but they should be able to hold second place. The American and Romanian woman tend to have lots of breaks in form on bars - this should help Tanya (Nabiyeva) and Katya (Kramarenko). America and Romania are, of course, most likely to win floor. But the 3 up 3 counting format of team finals can affect everyone the same way.
The Americans will have a big advantage on vault; there is strength in depth which pushes the standards up.
It's not only the Russians who have painful ankles - the other teams have injuries, too. Only time will tell ...'
With many thanks to the people on Gymfever who helped me with this translation ... You know who you are!
In the original Russian ...
'По большому счету Elizabeth Booth права. Команда максимально взвешенная. Соревновательная уверенность - за Алией. Своего рода - играющий тренер. На Европе в этой роли преуспела. Как говорят тренеры, ей даже понравилось. Основная боевая сила - Харенкова, Сосницкая и Спиридонова. Соответственно этому ударный снаряд - бревно (Марина Булашенко! С Богом!). Китаянки, конечно,... Но они, как известно, соревнуются по принципу: все стоят и побеждают, но если одна упала, то летят все. А на у наших Европе было хорошо. Алла Сосницкая должна бороться в финале на прыжке. И - по идее - на вольных. Брусочки, конечно, проигрывают китаянкам. Но там продержаться вторыми вполне по силам. И американки, и румынки доталкиваются и в стойки попадают, мягко говоря, через много раз на очередной. Там должны помочь Таня и Катя. Вольные, естественно, за американками и, скорее всего, румынками. Но при прохождении "три - зачет по трем", все - люди, а не только наши. Теоретически может сложиться. На прыжке толчея большая при преимуществе американок. За счет толчеи претенденток возрастает напряжение. Если делать свое, а не драться насмерть, то можно и выскочить в троечке. Если учесть, что голеностопы болят не только у россиянок, то не все так грустно. В многоборье, понятно, расклады другие'
Good luck to all the girls!
What do you think the working orders will be?
What do you think of Natalia's analysis of the competition?
Nabs to Worlds!!! Woohoo! Don't care about her lack of D. Can't wait to see her on the world stage again!
ReplyDeleteGod! Valentina' decisions! Finger crossed.
ReplyDeleteAlfi
Disaster in the making.. How will Russia perform? It looks like they are looking at 3rd the most. Aliya will have to carry everyone, and I don't think she'll be able to do it.
ReplyDeleteEven if they had Komova and Paseka Aliya would still be the one carrying everyone. And she knows it.
DeleteAside from loosing Paseka on VT (not that much of loss either) not much change happened here.
They will perform like they would originally, I can't see how having Nabieva change all that much their on their performance. Its not that bad either. They have strong scores on UB and BB, three DTY on VT and three floor out of 5.5 or more.
But they do lose a lot by loosing Paseka because even If she fails on VT, she will still score higher than Nabieva because her form is just atrocious. However, with Paseka, there is that chance that she will hit and score Huge! Paseka can clearly also contribute on floor and also had the chance to increase er SV if not possibly preform instead of Mustafina to giver Mustafina some rest. Furthermore, since Komova won't fill that third bar spot, the 3rd bar worker will be extremely weak when compared to the score komova would have contributed!
Deletepaseka's floor performance at the recent russian cup shouldn't contribute to fx in tf at all. poor execution and below the par tumbling. russia is going to get killed this year, and mustafina can't save them this time
DeleteWell given the depth of Russia on Floor, Paseka could have contribute.
DeleteFor team finals, no Mustafina can not save them; however for medals she can; she can medal in AA BB UB and maybe FX depending on what she upgrades on her FX
I'm actually more curious about qualification than team finals because I already have a good feeling of who's doing what in the final. I'm mainly wondering if they will end up putting up only four on some events in qualification.
ReplyDeleteThis is the likely team finals line up
ReplyDeleteVT Nabieva, Sosnitskaya, Mustafina
UB Kramerenko, Spirdinova, Mustafina
BB Spirdinova, Mustafina, Kharenkova
FX Sosnitskaya, Mustafina,???
I'd rather not see Mustafina perform on every piece, but what can you do, I think the team will need her to do it in order to place on the podium.
DeleteKharenkhova floor is out of 5.7.
DeleteAt this point, Russia will be LUCKY to place on the Podium. They needed Komova's Bar and Paseka's Amanar. Without them, and placing gymnast with bad form and/or Low D-vaules; severly impacts Russia's chance at a podium finish. They shouldn't overwork Mustafina by having her preform on all 4 events Especially since the chances at them even meddling is almost completely gone. They should save her for the AA and EF where she can medal for Russian camp
DeleteUnfortunately for Russia, they don't have the luxury to rest Mustafina on 1 or 2 apparatus because they are severly lacking depth and gymnasts who is Worlds-worthy. I have a feeling that from qualifications to team finals, Mustafina would be exhausted, then she won't get that much needed break because AA will come soon. I just have a feeling that coming AA, Mustafina will be so exhausted and won't be able to peform her best.
DeleteI think Mustafina will be affected if she is used in all events in the TF but she won't be extremely exhausted; just not as rested. Where she will feel exhausted will EF. Remember in 2010 and 2012 Mustafina Worked 4 events in qualification, 4 events in TF, 4 events in AA and 4 events (in 2010)/ 2 events in london in EF and she still came out the most decorated on both occasions. Given her current Stamina, I think she will feel it in EF
DeleteLet's not forget that it was during Alexandrov days. He knew how to develop her. No it is Valentina's day. Mercy!
DeleteAlfi
I can't believe my eyes >.< How is it better to take Nabieva than Fyodorova? Surely it's valuable for Fyodorova to gain the experience :S Nabs is past and she knows it.; she has nothing to add to the team.
ReplyDeleteWhy is there so much pessimism about their podium chances? Sure they're depleted, but this team has a strong chance of getting the bronze medal if they do what they're capable of. There's no expectation on them to win, of course! They've made it clear that they're not trying to impress this year but simply qualify Top 24 for next year, which should be easy for them. Sure they won't top USA and China, but now they look to be in better shape to beat Great Britain and Romania, who lost Tunney and Bulimar respectively.
ReplyDeleteRodionova was their weak link at Euros. We should be worried if she even made the Worlds team. Sosnitskaya, Kharenkova, and Spiridonova have all proven themselves in their individual EFs, so I believe they can hit their special events in the Team Final and bring in solid scores. Then you have veterans like Kramarenko with a good bar set and Nabieva with a DTY at least. Mustafina will likely end up posting the highest scores for the team across all 4 events, and she'll hit like she normally does because she loves her team, and to her, the team is her top priority over individual finals.
Ideally, having Komova and Paseka on the team would've given them the highest scoring potential and put them in better contention against China and USA, but they aren't losing their medal chance. Looking at the numbers, they seem to be in that middle where they're distantly behind the top 2 but also distantly ahead of everyone else. Barring any major mishaps, that bronze medal would be theirs to lose in my honest opinion.
So let's have a little more hope for the girls, okay? :)
Romania will be strong with 3 up 3 count.
ReplyDeleteGB will be strong in the TF.
ReplyDeleteIt's hopeless for Russia
ReplyDeleteAgree
DeleteYou never know what could happen to the top three teams (US, China, Russia). Especially on UB and BB. A lot of incosistency there.
ReplyDeleteI just hope the Russian girls feel no pressure now that everyone knows that the gold is basically out of reach. But again....you never know :D
My team finals :
ReplyDeleteV Nabiyeva, Sosnitskaya, Mustafina
UB Kramarenko, Spiridonova, Mustafina
B Spiridonova, Mustafina, Kharenkova
F Kharenkova, Mustafina, Sosnitskaya
Given the team's qualifying draw in the first subdivision, and the relative lack of strength in depth on this team, I think they are going to struggle to finish in the top three in qualifications, and narrow margins will determine whether Sosnitskaya can make EF on vault or floor. I think it will be mildly surprising if anyone but Mustafina and Kharenkova qualify to any finals, although Spiridonova could merit a place in bars final.
In team finals they should fare better as they have at least one good score on every piece if they perform to potential, and beam should shore up the relative weakness on floor. In China, the Chinese will always do well and I would not be surprised to see the team take gold here against a somewhat depleted American team.
If Russia, inspired by a reinvigorated Mustafina, hold their line, a respectable result should be possible.
Russia will definitely finish outside of top 2 during qualifications. They just don't have enough gymnasts who can pull in big numbers aside from Mustafina, of course. US and China will be neck in neck, and the gold medal will come down to consistency. Seeing 3 Chinese fall already, and their low scores on floor and their seemingly low E score on beam doesn't bode well for China.
DeleteI have a feeling, and I hope it doesn't come true, but I have a feeling that Olympics 2016 for Russia might look like Olympics 2008. I hope my feeling is wrong, but it sure is looking that way at the moment. Russian team seems do well in the early part of the year, then gradually gets worse. Like Kazan 2013. They had 2 Amanars, they also had great floor and bar workers, then injury and illness came.
Just a month ago, Russia seems to be coming back and vying for the silver medal, but just as recent as 2 weeks ago, that excitement was short-lived because injuries came. I blame the coaches for the injuries. Paseka would not have been injured if they had just corrected her VT. I saw that injury coming from a mile away, and I was right. Russian fans give me crap for criticizing Russia and their coaches, but no one seems to see how the caliber of gymnastics in Russia has really gone down. Technique and execution seems to have taken the back seat. Politics is more important than anything it seems. Everyone talks about Russia and their ballerina-style and it's beautiful- it is- but no one is seeing the bad things.
I think Russian fans(and I am one, though I am rational the most) should understand that criticizing Russia is for own benefit. I debated this one person on YouTube, and she's defending Paseka's place on the team, and I'm criticizing Paseka's quality of gymnastics. Paseka shouldn't be considered on the team at all. Period. Her VTs are so tacky, and even if she'd land them, huge deductions are coming her way. She butchers her execution, then almost always botches her landings, and this person on YouTube is still defending her place on the team! Unbelievable! Haha! We all know what happened to Paseka, she injured herself, and she's not a loss to the team. Should really cost the team a place on TF, that how bad she is.
DeleteAnyway, all I'm hoping for is for everyone to hit and let the medals sort itself. I still believe in Russia and I hope they get the bronze(let's be honest, bronze medal is the highest medal they could get at this point) and work hard to prepare for next year and Rio.
Queen E, I suspect your TF line up is correct. I'm guessing in quals, Mustafina, Kharenkova and Spiridonova will compete AA with Kramarenko, Nabieva and Sosnitskaya filling in on their important pieces.
DeleteVT: Spiridonova, Kharenkova, Nabieva, Sosnitskaya, Mustafina
UB: Kharenkova, Nabieva, Kramarenko, Spiridonova, Mustafina
BB: Sosnitskaya, Kramarenko, Spiridonova, Kharenkova, Mustafina
FX: Mustafina, Spiridonova, Kramarenko, Kharenkova, Sosnitskaya
They need to score above 220ish to make the finals, this team could easily do that. As far as making it in the top 3? I think they can beat GB, Italy, Romania and Germany for that spot. Some of these teams recently competed in 5 up 4 count formats and scored 218-222. To get above 225, the Russian team will have to average about 14.07 across 4 routines/apparatus that count. I can see them surpassing this mark easily on vault and bars, it might be a struggle on beam if their are multiple falls and floor will be probably just under the 14 line - but if they have a good beam rotation, they should score well above 225. China and USA will likely score higher. China just put up 228 at Asian games counting one missed beam and one missed floor routine. The USA team without Biles and Ross put up 223ish counting a few missed routines, I expect them to be a bit higher at worlds. I think Russia has a very strong chance for the podium.
As regards criticisms if Russia - I would avoid a wholesale generalisation about degradation in their technique, line etc. Vault is certainly NOT a strength. Kharenkova is not a ballerina but her form and execution bad technique is much maligned, and unfairly since she has made much improvement. Russia always expressed gymnastics across a range of different styles, using ballet training as a basic. This is more evident in the work of Mustafina and Spiridonova than it is in the work of Sosnitskaya, but it reflects a World degradation in standards. Simone Biles has improved, but does not have good line. Claudia Fragapane has great energy, but her form and posture are pretty atrocious. Even during the Soviet era, Russian gymnasts expressed different levels of artistry : think Priakhina, Kozlova eg. Only the very very best had the ability to combine artistry with innovation and power in a way that made them great to watch as well as amazing acrobats. Shushunova was the best.
DeletePaseka's vaulting is better than you give her credit for. She has faults and rarely delivers to her full potential. But she is still one of Russia's best vaulters and regularly qualifies to major competition finals in the event.
You have to contextualise where a Russia is today. Yes, this isn't their strongest team. I do not argue that they are at their highest point, artistically, technically or in terms if innovation. They don't even attempt to compete with the power gymnastics that has become so important to the world leader, the USA. They do have better talent available, and they will get their act together, sooner or later.
Queen Elizabeth, this is no way of disrespecting your views, but I think you and many gymnastics fans are still stuck in the past. Lithe body are still seen as synonymous to grace and artistry. Though I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with some of it. Artistic gymnastics has evolved throughout the years and the way gymnastics are performed now a days are harder than it was 30 years ago. Simone Biles have a stocky built, but her technique in executing big skills are very good. In bars, where having long lines is important, Biles received the highest E score on bars last year because she has great technique. Amazing hand stands, good toe point, legs lock together, doesn't bend on her down swings, etc.
DeleteAgain, this is not to disrespect you, but Paseka's vaulting is horrible. Very poor technique, execution, poor everything. She's injured because of the caliber of her vaulting.
All gymnasts get injured sometimes. No one knows the cause of Paseka's injury, but herself and her coaches.
DeleteIf I had to guess, I would she had an ankle injury because of her poor vault executions.
DeleteFor all competitions i saw, and gymnasts the teams put it, i say again, USA for gold, ROMANIA silver, CHINA OR GRREAT BRITAIN for bronce, i dont see russia in the bronce, and only mustafina can go for AA if she not hurt, no chances for any medal on vault, maybe bronce in UB with mustafina, kharenkova and mustafina can fight on beam, and on FLOOR, im curious if mustafina can do her full floor .
ReplyDeleteAnd i see this team like russian mens team in 2000, only nemov suport the team, that is mustafina now
I'm British and I definitely don't want to see GB on the gymnastics podium. I just don't see them as world class gymnasts. Claudia Frangapane is great on floor but the rest aren't really up to par. They only medalled above Russia at Euros because Russia was struggling. It's sad the Rodionenkos have affected the programme to this level but again, I'd rather see them struggle now than in 2016.
Deleteim agree with u, my comment its more for results i saw, and gb dont have the class and technique of the russians, but have more power than russians, and again agree with u, rodianenkos kil the program, and i really heat that, but thats the fact now, and thats why i doubt russia can get the bronce, all depends of the chinesse team i think
DeleteIt's hard to say who the top 3 will be. I can't see anyone on the podium other than three of the big four. They all have their weakness for now and I really honestly think the results cannot be predetermined. Equally everyone has their strengths, although of the big four, I would be most concerned about Russia's performance in TF. For me, Romania is lacking in depth. Larissa Iordache is in a very similar position to Aliya. The new seniors most likely aren't in top shape and are lacking experience. However, as someone already said, Romania is strong on the 3 up 3 count format; certainly much stronger than Russia- some people have used Beijing 2008 as an example. This year, USA will not be bringing their complete A team, but they are, as QE said, the leaders and are overflowing with talent. The Worlds will be a chance to see how the lesser known members of the team will perform. I have a feeling that Marta has her eyes on Rio and any medals along the way there, from now on, is just a bonus. I really hope China can claim gold but their weakness is of course, as always, consistency. They can manage three fairly decent DTYs, with no injuries or hiccups, that should be sufficient not to leave them too far behind on that piece. Their weakest piece is now floor and I'm still not convinced they're strong enough on the other two pieces to overcome the deficit on their D-scores. Russia has weakness with depth, politics and injuries, but it's not anything that isn't common to the other teams. Whether it is to the same extent, can be argued either way. Team GB has a long way to go still. I feel they will crumble at Worlds because a). they tend to do that, b). they just don't have the execution c). or the confidence for that matter.
DeleteI hope Russia's heads dont put the pressure on the team final over the risk of a tired Mustafina, because all bad stuff will happen, Russia is not going to be in podium and Aliya is not goin to perform at her best in AA and EF. It is better to rest Mustafina thinking that Russia is weak this year anyway (and it's true no matter how fans of Russia we are, we have to accept it) and take advantage of her potential to the individual medals.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like they need Mustafina for all events because they couldn't afford on sitting her out. Mustafina might burnout during TF, AA and EF, I hope she won't but they are relying on her too much.
DeleteThere is a current way if thinking, that a gymnast can't compete all states of a competition without burning out. It is true to day that Nanning is a long drawn-out schedule, and also the increasing focus on podium training performance means that to an extent the competition begins long before the gymnasts make the podium.
DeleteHowever, I do remember a time when all the gymnasts competed on all four or six of the apparatus, during compulsory stages, optional stage, then finals. The all around top 36 (3 per country) then went forward to AA final. And the strongest competitors would then compete all four event finals. Shushunova had such a schedule in both 1987 and 1985 and won multiple medals, including on floor. In 1988 she had tired a little by the final day, when the held all the apparatus finals both men and women, on the day right after the women's AA. So she missed out in some expected medals, but Silivas filled the gap she left.
People seem to think that it's not possible to compete all four without exhaustion taking a heavy toll. Of course, tiredness comes into play but I think it is impossible to judge at this stage what state of fitness Mustafina, or any gymnast is in. Biles seems to have endless energy and that is great but who knows how they will all react to the physical and mental stresses. I don't expect any gymnast to 'burn out' because of the competition schedule, though - this is what they train for. They might be less than perfect sometimes, but that is just being a human, and the nature if sport.
Let's not be pessimistic ...
im agree with u , they train for this, but im really question if mustafina can do it for the injuries, im not sure if preparation they have its the reason they injury a lot, comparing with american team, have a big difference, im not worry for the mental and tired for all competitions, im worry for the preparation they have, for me its not enough, not like the soviets had, or the russians in 90s, for that i dont think they can get a medal this worlds
DeleteQueen Elizabeth, you have a fair point, but the format of the game has changed, so the way gymnasts are training are base on the current system. Besides from the format change, Russia doesn't have a Silivas to fill in for an injured and burnout Mustafina. Russia is barely hanging by a thread with recent injuries and sickness that has taken out potential medalists from the team. How much can an injured Mustafina carry the whole team by herself without any help? Qualification should be interesting to watch.
DeleteMustafina clearly hasn't burned out yet, and while she looked tired in podium training and qualifications in Nanning, she was strong in consistent in the AA final and beam final, and won the bars bronze with an ok routine for her. The Russians often show up looking ragged but put it together for the competition. Also think back to earlier in 2013, when shortly after hospitalization, she was added to the team and won Universiade convincingly. This year she has looked good at every competition. She's fit. Yes - it's a long competition for everyone. But they also train for hours every day, most fays of the week. They should be fine.
DeleteNabs making the team, shows that Russia really is suffering from a lack of depth. I just hope her execution can be good because it was pretty bad even during her best times.
ReplyDeleteLet see how these youngsters do. Hopefully some, if not all can make an Event final.
Good luck to the team. I will be cheering. They have chance to make the podium (mainly 3rd). However, it is gymnastics, where anything can happen, they could go even higher (shrug).
Aliya being a coach to the team, that was obvious, glad she likes the role.
Nothing personal but historical fact, Rodionenko has never been able to field an A team. In 1987 WCH, Soviet Union lost Gold for the first time in decades to Romania. Rodionenko was the head coach at the time . Why did they lose? Was it lack of depth, coaches, system, funding or talent ? It was a golden team full of the strongest historical soviet stars :
ReplyDeleteYelena Shushunova
Svetlana Baitova
Oksana Omelianchik
Elena Gurova
Svetlana Boginskaya
Tatiana Tuzhikov
So what went wrong?
No it was not a matter of talent, nor coaches nor....etc. It was a matter of the right decision. Clearly, decision making skills are quite problematic for Rodionenko. We see best coaches fired, best gymnasts driven to retirement, poor team selection decisions and poor team conditioning decisions.
Beijing 2008 story is well known for everyone.
In 2010, 2 of Beijing team members went on to win Team Gold in Amsterdam WCH under Alexandrov in addition to a streak of gold and silver. By 2011 WCH Russia got silver in team competition and fought for AA and EF medals under Alexandrov. In London, Russia wan more medals in gymnastics than others and Mustafina wan most medals then and became the most decorated gymnast of the games, again under Alexandrov Leadership. The successful games end and Alexandrov gets fired. Then , things go back to normal i.e same as 2008.
Out of situations observed since after London Olympics, i think Rodionenko is the kind of person who believes that changing the person with a new one is the solution. He has been firing coaches frequently, pushing gymnasts to retire, and even changing rules of Russian gymnastics to a somehow backdated conservative ones. I worked with similar kind of people before. Usually individuals who are media focused tend to look for press release material that could make the next opportunity to make the headlines. Problems should not necessarily get solved. What is important is the media score. It kind of fits the Russian situation and Rodionenko profile. Hot announcements, being center of posing and pictures, bad team performance, gymnasts retiring, team depleting, coaches fired, excuses, less results and no problems solved, typical. The only thing saving the situation is Mustafina. She keeps winning. Ironically, she is Alexandrov's product used by Rodionenko. I believe, when she retires the situation will be worse and more exposed. There should be a total reform for their system based on proper governance, performance based management of the team for coaching staff (including National coach) and gymnastics scientific research rather than keep going on with a mutated version of a totalitarian gymnastics system that lives on media frenzy.
Amen! Rodionenkos love to power trip as well! Russia has lost its edge due to poor management and partially coaching. What happened to Russia's unparalleled technique? Gymnasts are getting injured because of poor technique, especially in hard skills. Mustafina blew out ACL because of poor technique. Paseka is injured because of poor technique. Nabieva is just gross to watch in general.
DeleteYou are wrong about Andrei Rodionenko. He led the Soviet team to many gold medals, in particular at Worlds in 1985 and the Olympics in 1988. He was a critical cog in the wheel of the machine that produced much of the greatest gymnastics of what is now considered to be 'The Golden Era'. Please do not slander him on this blog with you inaccurate and poorly researched meanderings.
DeleteI personally consider him a better technical coach than team coach. Frankly, he seems to be rather nervous. I do not blame him for this, but a coach needs passion if he is to inspire a team to take a gold medal. Alexandrov would be more fiery, ambitious and charismatic and I think possesses the drive to make Russia win. Russia is the poorer without him, but that doesn't make Andrei Rodionenko a poor coach - far from it.
I don't think we are taking depth in consideration here. Would Rodionenko have been capable of doing what he did back in the 80's with the situation Russia is in right now? I think he is good at what he does but he shouldn't be in charge anymore specially his wife.
DeleteBut the earlier post argued on the basis that a Rodionenko had won nothing with the Soviets.
DeleteI don't think it is possible to argue hypothetically and ask if Rodionenko would have been capable then if conditions had been as they are today...
It's not his job to coach the girls hands on, he has responsibility for strategy across MAG and WAG.
If he weren't in charge who would be? Alexandrov is tied down to a contract in Brazil.
Rodionenko isn't a fierce coach who wins everything; I think he is better in a situation like Canada, where he was able to raise standards immensely and gently make progress with the programme, but not too much is expected in terms of medals.
People expect too much of Russia. They will probably never be in a dominating position again as the USSR was, for geographic, demographic and political reasons. Rodionenko isn't a bad coach and for the moment there isn't really anyone else who presents themselves as a viable alternative. A change now would be too disruptive to the programme given the many sensitive relationships in which funding support depend.
If Rodionenko has a weakness it is that he selects coaching staff in his image and doesn't appoint people to fill his skill gaps. Alexandrov was the perfect foil for him, but Rodionenko got scared and threw the baby away with the bath water. Ditto Ostapenko, Korolenko and any number of other highly independent and professional coaches. Grebyonkin is an efficient head coach who fosters good team spirit, but I do not see in him the fire and ambition to inspire the girls to their utmost efforts: then again, Rodionenko might argue that utmost efforts are counter productive at this stage of the Game, mid cycle, short of gymnasts, reliant on veterans, operating in a sport in which injury prevention and management has become a key concern.
Alfosov is a fine MAG coach who Rodionenko lets get on with his job.
Valentina is Valentina. She is a PR disaster and shouldn't set foot in a gym while she is saying those things to the press. She has been a bit better recently.
Looks to me as though we are stuck with Andrei till Rio. That isn't a complete disaster. I think you do have to take into account what Alexandrov said, for as long as Rod is in charge Russian gymnastics won't fly. I would take that opinion very seriously indeed as it comes from someone intimately acquainted with a complex situation, who knows how to run a team and win medals. But sacking Rodionenko is most probably the wrong thing to do now - it would be destabilizing. And he isn't a bad coach at all.
Lets make sme things clear here. Nor Rodionenko nor Alexandrov nor anyone would be able to do what was done at the 80/90's with URSS. Thats because we are not URSS, we are Russia. Different system, education, economy, politics, social structure. Do you think those things do not make a difference? URSS was an Olympics potency, thousands of medals. Russia is not even close to anything of this sort.
DeleteRodionenko did not fire all the "BEST" coaches, much the opposite, many coaches have returned or refused foreign offers because of the recent investments on the sport. The one coach that got fired was Alexandrov, and this is a complex issue because even though Alexandrov is amazing as coach the situation was terse and the girls were actually very tense. One had to go and since we cant get ride of Andrei...In fact, when people outside Russia started an campaign to get Alexander back, many athletes actually PUBLICLY demanded those fans to stop it because they did not see it as the best option.
The best athletes are not being driven to retirement either. If much, there have been a HUGE effort from the coaches to keep those athletes going. Aliya and Xenia Afana have both expressed on more than one occasion that they were thinking on those lines, yet they always come back and keep training. Tatiyana Nabieva, like her or not, left retirement by a request from the coaches to help Russia. So did Kramarenko. Whether you people respect those two athletes or not. They are doing a lot for Russia. Vika with so many injuries, two years already on this fight, do you think she does not think about stopping? the coaches are really trying to incentive her to keep working. The only athlete that u could say was driven into retirement was Anna, would have helped us immensely at O12, but far from being our best one.
Mustafina isn't being used by no one, she is 19 years old, does gymnastics because she wants, to her must be worthy it. When she retires someone else will come, nobody thought we would ever have someone like Khorkina again, yet then came Aliya and Vika.
ON the "poor coaching" and unparalleled technique comment and how you all enjoyed soviet times coaching. Just FYI, most of the coaches nowadays were part of the soviet time or at least at early 90's, so this is a totally invalid argument. So Aliya had a poor technique on VT, that is why she got injured? How about Mckayla Maroney going on her 4th surgery, does she have a poor technique too? Or Priessman,Ohashi, Ernst, Bailie Key, Laurie Hernandez, Nichols, Kocian, Dowell, Baumman, Maroney, Ross, Biles (those are all the athletes that got injured on US on the last two years) do they all have poor technique too? US is, right now, out of 6 of its elite athletes because of poor technique too?
Gymnastics are getting injured because of poor CoP, Mykayla Skinner going to worlds is there to prove poor technique gets good scores after all.
What poor team decision was made here? The team chosen is the team available, as simple as that. Thank god Komova is not going, because I actually wants to see her at O16, as an AA, and the only way for this to happens is to give her time and not hush any skill on her. She has to develop them slowly like Aliya did at 2010/2012. So if we loose now, whatever, what matters is O16.
And have you EVER been at Round Lake or the domestics gyms to know how those girls are being conditioning? Do you even know how the "old glorious golden" soviet era used to conditioning its athletes? If you do not know what you are talking about, why talk a bunch of BS?
Also, if you knew how much Russian press and media care about gymnastics, you would feel really stupid with your argument. I only wish the press would give our sport this much attention rather than the 2min every 3 months they usually do.And Andrei RARELY gives interviews or talk with the press, when he does is pretty precise and serious, nothing frenzzy about it.
So next time researching and thinking would be handy.
First of all, not all injuries are created equal. Always remember that. Maroney's injuries actually started in 2012 before the Olympic Games. She slip on the beam and broke a toe, and she went to the Olympics with a broken toe and because it wasn't fixed right away, it exacerbated her injury. Her toe/foot injury or injuries were never severe, that's why she was able to come back right away. Mustafina's injury was really bad because she tore her ACL, and made her stop doing gymnastics for a while.
DeleteDowell's injury wasn't that bad either, she tweaked her ankle in the summer but it didn't stop her from competing. Bailie Key's injury is the same thing, she was expected to make a full recovery, but her coaches decided to not let her complete in order to prepare her for her senior debut next year.
Baumann fell on her bars transition and tweaked her elbow, but it's good now. Ross and Biles injured their shoulder but they are fine now.
I'm not saying that the US gymnasts don't get injured because they do, but the rate of injury in the Russian camp is way worse than in the US. Paseka's vaults are like ticking bombs, injury waiting to happen there, and it happened. She's out because of injury.
No one is hating on Russian gymnastics or anything, and I respect those gymnasts who came back just to help the team. But Russia wouldn't be in this dilemma if they just taught/corrected Paseka's vaulting technique, they also alienated and drove a lot of gymnasts to retirement or go to another country. That is poor management right there, and this camp is in turmoil because of the toxic environment.
'The rate of injury is far worse ...'
DeleteHow do you measure the injury rate? Are you adjusting for population? Over what time period are you measuring? What are the ages of the gymnasts? Have you looked across men and women? Do you have access to all the data?
I wouldn't venture to say anything so adventurous without reference to reliable statistics from an authoritative source, and I haven't seen any statistics at all on injury rate. Could you provide a reference to your source please?
Nor do you have any direct evidence to back up your assertion that Paseka's injury is due to poor technique. If poor technique is a determinant of injury, then why hasn't Biles suffered a severe foot, ankle or neck injury at some time in her career?
As for the 'toxic environment' - I don't think it exists so much recently, any more than it does in the American camp, the British camp, the Romanian camp or any camp. People don't like Valentina and I think that is understandable given her role in the fight with Alexandrov (who is a very charismatic and likeable character) and some of the things she has said about the girls. I think it is plain, however, that Valentina is making efforts to curb her somewhat too frank and occasionally inexplicable exchanges with the press. Andrei has always been reasonable and professional, the gymnasts are all delightful and the team coaches are pleasant and informative. Alfosov in particular is very crisp and informative.
If anything, I think the atmosphere at Lake Krugloye is probably a little bit too easy-going.
I'm not trying to say that everything in Russia is perfect - clearly it isn't. I guess that if you took a close view of the American team, the British team, the Japanese team, any team, you would conclude the same. But there are many things that are right. The Russian team is still achieving reasonable results, and that requires organisation, discipline, good planning and good relations.
There is much more I could say, but I will leave this thread for now to avoid provoking more ill founded predictions of doom and gloom. The gymnasts deserve better.
With all due respect, you don't need to a rocket scientist to see that the injury rate in the Russian camp far exceeds of those in the Big 4. When I talk about injury, I'm talking about gymnasts who had to stop to get surgeries and needs a while to recover from it. Russia's top gymnasts injuries mostly needs surgeries and long recovery time to fully heal. Afanaseyva, Komova, Grishina, and among other gymnasts.
DeleteRight now, we don't know Paseka's reason on why she got injured, but I think it's safe to say that her vaulting might be a huge factor for that. Or maybe her Floor. She tends to butcher landings too and her twisting for is really bad. She tends to be cross her legs and soft on the knees.
I have a question. Why do you say that Biles should be injured on her vaults? Do you see how Biles does her vault? Great block, amazing height, good form(with just a little cross of the legs), and she never underrotates her vaults. She's not twisting while she's landing. Paseka, Mustafina, Afanaseyva, Komova, Nabieva are still twisting while landing, and that's what blew Mustafina's ACL.
I'm not predicting Russia's demise in gymnastics world, I'm criticizing and questioning the leadership of their camp.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist, but you do need to use your common sense.
DeleteI have been through the issues involved in making this particular judgement countless times on this blog - I am repeating them for somebody who is so obviously determined to avoid thinking at all costs.
Your opinion of the leadership of the Russian team is appreciated, but the basis of your opinions is not stated clearly or convincingly at all.
That is all.
I am using my common sense, that's why I'm giving you my observation base on the facts that's given to me.
DeleteYou can deny all the evidence in front of you, and still live in the past. But the evidence are in front of you, and the things that I mentioned are with merit. I think as fans, we need to give credit where credit is due, but criticize where things are not going well. Right now, the Russian camp is not doing well. Injury after injury after injury. Why? Technique and form issues and more other things.
DeleteLet's talk about Paseka, shall we? How can one see her vault and call it beautiful? Her vaults are atrocious because she has form issues and her technique is horrendous.
Why do you think Paseka almost always step on the side and out of the mat when she lands her vault? Because she's still rotating as she lands. Her vaults are career ending injury waiting to happen. I hope not, but you'll see.
P.S. Afanaseyva should not be doing Amanar unless she
Sorry it got cut off..
DeleteAfanaseyva should not be doing Amanar unless she learns how to do a good block because she underrotates it too, big time.
Queen Elizabeth, I'm sorry for my part on this useless argument.I will stop commenting on those nonsense comments.
DeleteI just wish people would realize Russia is not URSS and we should not be compared to them. Its just not fair for those girls to have to carry this sort of incorrect comparison. Also, if those same people knew what kind of "coaching" and "conditioning" was done at the 70/80/90's they have been demanding to bring back they would flip. Nor that I completely disagree with that method but its not something "political correct" or that would be accepted at many places.
I know I often seem like I love Andrei Rodionenko, that is not the case. In fact I would rather have someone else there, even Alexandrov. However I do not think he is that bad either.Russia before him was much worse, 2008? Even at 2004, the team was counting with gymnasts still trained at the old system like Zamo and Khorkina, the only new blood was Anna Pavlova. Many people seem to think he is depised by the athletes and coaches, what is also not true. The athletes, and Aliya included, get very well with him. I often see Aliya chatting with him at competitions. Valentina is bitch and has a big mouth on her but she has very little to do with the training and coaching. She is rarely seen around the field. I think she rarely talks with the girls/coaches. All we have to do is ignore her BS and let it go. It does not affect the athletes at all.
Finally, who are those people to say and infer how the girls are being trained/coached inside their own gyms? What do they know? They have never been inside a training at Round Lake to know shit. Lots of US coaches comes from Russia, their girls are trained just the same. Leadership of their camp? Its not even a camp, is more like a training basis since the girls spends lots of their time there. And what sort of solid information do they have that they can say, precisely, what happens at Russian camp? Not even the Karolys give a free view of everything that happens at their camp. Only videos here and there.
The comment above just described how 80% of world gymnastics have been performing skills on vault and floor, yet Paseka is the one being injured by poor technique, bad leadership? Oh Please...Dowell/Raisman/Ross/Skinner etc all had/have shit form and awful Amanars, but theire are not poor technique and bad leadership right?
Anyways I'm sorry.
It also doesn't look good when Russian coaches ask a gymnast to come out of retirement to help the team. You can see how severely depleted the Russian team is. They are also taking Nabieva who hasn't been in shape since 2010. That kind of gymnastics that Nabieva have should not have qualified in an elite team like Russia. But they don't have a choice, Nabieva is the best thing they have to complete their team.
ReplyDeleteOK friends, lets consider this post a de-stress venting exercise. We are cool and calm now. Lets wrap this argument here and start fresh with the team in China. Cheer for the team, no matter what :)
ReplyDeleteEND
( of pillow fight)
;)