I certainly wasn't the only one who observed events in Rio yesterday. And what a sad day, to see Romania fall out of contention for a team place in the Rio Olympics, so suddenly and so brutally after months of anticipation. Although the team's performance was consistent with their result at the Glasgow World Championships, it was especially hard to hear how they fell at the very first hurdle, to read of the failures on bars, for so long a bugbear of the Romanian system. After that, the team spirit was set and it was always going to be hard to lift them to more winning ways.
Romania's fate really echoes so much that has happened to Russia in recent years: an over reliance on a handful of star performers, many of them now injured and veteran; juniors difficult to transition to senior level responsibility; distinct technical weaknesses on one or two apparatus; and, for the Romanians especially, a volatile internal political situation resulting in frequent staffing changes to the coaching team. In Romania also (as in Ukraine) funding is a big problem. I wonder if, like Ukraine, the great tradition of Romanian gymnastics will now fail. Their men's team has also, more quietly, fallen out of sight.
Interestingly, all of the twelve nations who have qualified full WAG teams to Rio are developed economies who have highly organised sports systems whose funding is derived from a variety of sources - corporate sponsorship, private philanthropy, self-generated income and government support. The Ukraine men's team stands alone across the men's and women's team qualifiers as a nation whose funding and organisation relies almost entirely on the spirit and determination of its athletes and coaches. Verniaiev and his team are remarkable and I wish for a medal for them in Rio. Gymnastics is a highly resource-dependent sport, one of the most expensive both financially and in terms of personal commitment.
We can point at Romania and say 'the training needs to improve'. That is fairly self-evident. But this will not change while the funding and political situation of the sport within Romania itself remains so uncertain, and while the burden of coaching rests on the shoulders of a handful of long-suffering personal and team coaches. Whether the wider Romanian economy and political environment can support the development of the necessary training infrastructure is a moot point, and one that I am not qualified to judge; but the general observation is there for all to see - gymnastics at team level is for highly organised countries with the political will and economic capability to make it work.
So we look forward, and send all of our best wishes to Romania and to those systems who are struggling under their current regimes.
And we celebrate another remarkable athlete, Oksana Chusovitina, who yesterday qualified to her seventh Olympic Games. Oksana has independently forged her own luck and training framework, with the help of the national coaches to the Uzbekistan team, including her 1992 Soviet Union team mate Svetlana Boguinskaia. I will hope to see them both in the arena in Rio; what an amazing sight that will be.
Can Iordache still compete if she recovers from her injury?
ReplyDeleteYes, Romania has qualified one individual representative to the Games.
DeleteI think they knew that they won't qualify for Rio before coming to the test event. Looking at the D Scores (Plus some really bad E-Scores except for Ponor). Officially the end of Romanian gymnastics.
DeleteVery good and accurate analysis of the situation.
ReplyDeleteSome coaches from Ukraine were saying in private conversations,as early as 1991, that they doubted that gymnastics could thrive with the changes that happened. They understood that the system depended upon the economy that they had.
Frankly it is quite amazing that Romania was able to do well for so long. Times change, the code changes and it reflects the powers that be at the moment. However nothing is static we will see this out as well. However nothing from the West has the technical brilliance and artistry that came before.
There's been numerous athletes from the west that came to the same if not better in terms of technical and artistic brilliance the Romanians had to offer. You need to fact check before making that statement. Give the athletes their due respect.
DeleteWhat artistic brilliance has the West shown? *Crickets*
DeleteI think that they could've qualified if they had their team from 2014 euros, ponor replacing Iordache; even though that team wasn't fabulous, its been the best this quad. But can someone PLEASE tell me what happened to Andrea Munteneu???
DeleteI agree. To name a few Miller, Liukin, Moceanu, Dawes, Patterson (straight legs in comparison to Romanian gymnasts), Ross, etc. You just have to open your eyes and be less bias because it is clearly showing. If anything, Romanians are not as artistically prominent as you might think. If you look back, they dominated in technicality rather than artistry. The last true artistic gymnast that the Romanian produced is Porgras.
DeleteJosepah Pappas, Andrea Munteanu was essentially dismissed from the national team for lack of effort, I believe when Bitang and Bellu returned to coach the team in the late fall or Winter of 2015. It was an ongoing problem between coaching staff and athlete, for which Munteanu was selected as a traveling reserve for Worlds; however, she was not even chosen to compete on the six person team after Ocolisan became injured at Glasgow for the same reason. Munteanu, along with Stanila (2013, 2014 world squad) and another handful of new seniors were "demoted" to the junior training center.
DeleteRomania, Bitang and Bellu in particular, have a history of dismissing athletes. Raluca Haidu and Diana Chelaru were also dismissed from the team after the Olympics, even though they both wanted to continue. The reason for the depth problem is pretty obvious, and contradictory to Bellu's recent statements. He blames the organization of the sport, waiting for girls to become of Olympic age when he dismisses all of the experienced team members...
You lost me with Patterson because of straight legs (lol) and the rest were okay to say the least but none of them are memorable for their artistry outside the US. And no, I don't remember saying the Romanians are artistically prominent when their gymnastics are similar to what the Americans do and they have a history of ugly displays, but! They had some memorable artistic jewels that were better than every single American you have mentioned.
DeleteI am often amazed at the level of hatred towards American gymnasts by some posters on this blog.
DeleteI am old enough to remember gymnastics all the way back to the mid 1980's but my memory is not great so I honestly cannot recall any artistic jewels other than a handful of Russians (Soviets).
As far as recent history, I can honestly say that when I look at Ponor on beam she looks identical to Raisman. In fact, it is quite clear from this casual fans eyes that the Americans in general look very similar to the Romanians on beam. They are aggressive, confident and efficient and I cannot honestly tell the difference, but when say Komova is on beam, I definitely notice a difference.
So Kitty sha, could you provide some names to your statements. What Romanians are you thinking about that were artistic jewels, so there can be some actual comparison discussions?
Todd
I wouldn't call it hatred or personal hatred for every American gymnasts. More like displeasure for their gymnastics. But tell me how Patterson artistically overshadowed Khorkina? No, she didn't even with her straight legs. How she overshadowed Pavlova? No, she didn't and instead Pavlova became a fan favorite even with her mistakes and at the time in gymnastics when artistry is lacking, people miss her and probably more than Liukin. Ross, can we really say she is out there with the likes of Mustafina and Ksenia? And I wouldn't consider those two to be with the great Soviets when it comes to artistry so what does that say about you bringing Ross? That you are desperate to prove a point that is impossible to make. Without Patterson and Ross that only leaves you 4. That's less than the entire 88 and 89 Romanian team who had good artistry and very memorable and loved gymnasts like Silvas and Dobres. It surprise me that you can remember the 80's but you can't remember those two Romanian teams? Maybe because it doesn't help your point at all. Like I said, I agree the Romanians weren't like the Soviets and then the Russians, but those two teams and just to mention a few other modern gymnasts like Ana Porgras and Sandra Izbasa, have done more for artistry than the Americans.
DeleteThe dutch have developed more artistry and managed to place for the first time since 1976
DeleteI think you are confusing me with another person that is posting under Anonymous.(I choose not to post on an account as I prefer Anonymous, but I try to always leave my name at the bottom). The poster who mentioned Patterson, Ross etc. is not me.
DeleteThe only point I was making is there is not much difference in artistry form the Romanians to the Americans (present day) (where I mentioned Ponor and Raisman on beam). There is a difference when you look at the Russians (where I mentioned Komova on beam). I never mentioned any other athlete. This is just my opinion of course.
I will look at videos of the 88 and 89 Romanian teams to refresh my memory on those athletes. Thanks.
Todd
Currently, rumors and stories about Munteanu, Belu and Bitang are emerging, but let's look the facts:
DeleteMunteanu declined over more than one year. In Nanning, she would dispute one medal on beam, but she wasn’t and nobody showed reasons.
Munteanu was the reserve in Glasgow when Ocolisan was injured, but she wasn’t and nobody showed reasons.
Belu and Bitang took the Romanian national team only in December 2015. They were refusing this function since 2013 or 2014.
Munteanu, Stalina and other girls were dismissed in January 2016. Nobody showed reasons, again.
All the time of this new phase, Belu and Bitang didn’t received salaries and gained formal contracts. That was the alleged reason for the new exit.
They also complained about the lack of freedom in choosing the team. Apparently, they had no power, only trained.
Honestly, I agree with Elizabeth. The Economic Framework is very important on the Gymnastic but Organization and Seriousness are too. I don’t know who the guilty just wish Romanian gymnastics recovering.
Oops, my mistake. Hard to tell when both have Anonymous for names. Well, consider my response as one part for you and one part for the other Anonymous lol
Delete"The only point I was making is there is not much difference in artistry form the Romanians to the Americans."
I agree with that and that's why I have never been a big fan of Romanian gymnastics. However, I do have my list of Romanian favorites and mostly those are very artistic gymnasts who have the "wow" factor that you see or used to see in Soviet gymnastics and the Russians.
TBH, they are pretty strong on vault, beam and floor...I think I have been hearing for years and years and years that they are weak on uneven bars. I just want to know why they never developed uneven bars. I think the only great bar workers from the past few cycles were Steliana Nistor, Ana Porgras and Larisa Iordache. I think if they had Andreea Iridon on the Rio team, they would have faired better since she is good at uneven bars when she hits. My guess is that she was injured.
ReplyDeleteHello Queen Elizabeth.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your brilliant analysis of the situation. It is so sad to see them fall apart; I knew they were struggling, but I always believed that they would be able to pull it off. Without the money and the depth, they will likely be out like Ukrain (the women) for a long time. This is so sad. I hope a bank or another big business in Romania will sponsor Romanian gymnastics.
They need to seriously send a few of their gymnasts to RU to learn how to do a proper bar routine. When you only have 1 on your team that can score above a 14.5 on bars, you are not going to win any team medal.
ReplyDeleteGiven that they have pretty much fallen to the abyss at worlds (ranking next to last) and also test event (with even swiss beating them) I just don't see how they will really get back anytime soon. They need to hire an outsider (maybe alexandrov?) and even then it will take at least 1 or 2 quads.
Maybe Marta Karolyi would like a new challenge after she retires as U.S. National Coordinator. :)
ReplyDelete