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| Tutkhalyan and Melnikova - gymnastics dynamite and Russia's not so secret weapon for the Rio Olympics |
Aside from the obvious observation - how must it affect the girls to be so unsure? - I'm going to repeat again how disappointed I am with this team selection* - so predictable and conservative it makes me want to yawn. Have the coaches lost sight of their goal of gold in Europeans? Or, more to the point, have they lost sight of the need to fight for gold - rather than avoid the ignominy of defeat? What kind of lily-livered team is Russia these days?
How exciting it was to watch the first days of the Russian Championships and see the emergence of a new guard in their women's team. The duo of Melnikova and Tutkhalyan - ambitious, fiery, with real top-class potential. Skrypnik - always such a graceful competitor, one who - to me - has a surprising, Khorkina-like ability to pull out her best performance when really needed. Kapitanova - brilliant bars work, a reliable all arounder to date. By comparison the performance of the veterans seemed stale and unpromising. Afanasyeva had a foot injury that prevented her full participation, Paseka was recovering from an illness or injury and unable to show her best work, Komova wasn't there - again. Apart from the naturally brilliant Mustafina this group of veterans is a ghost team.
This is not a criticism of these great Olympians who have contributed so much to gymnastics worldwide over the past few years and who no doubt are training very hard. I certainly hope to see them fight for a place on the Russian team in Rio. However, granting them assured 'locks' to Europeans at a time when the team needs to be strengthened from within, and young, vigourous talent is emerging, seems wrong. First of all, what team can survive when there is no competition? Secondly, how to motivate those youngsters whose efforts are making Russian gymnastics appear vibrant and exciting for the first time in some years? Thirdly, how about blooding some new talent on the international scene? What happens if the veterans get injured, are tired out, out of contention by the summer? Then the team is left with no choice but to select youngsters for the Olympics who will have no major international experience at all. Silly. Just silly. Europeans is a competition that the Russians can risk losing - for the sake of giving her youth a taste of the top level. It's now or never.
All gymnasts fall. The ones who succeed are the ones who keep going. Shushunova, Khorkina, Biles, Mustafina all know this. It's time that the coaches recognised this as well. Have some confidence in your girls, and in time they will have more confidence too.
Come on Russia, let's fight!
My only prediction for Europeans - Romania will win.
WAG team for Berne - Mustafina, Melnikova, Afanasyeva, Paseka, Spiridonova. Reserve - Tutkhalyan/Kapitanova
Related post -
RRG on the team announcements for Berne.
*I just want to say here - I am dissapointed with the selection - NOT the gymnasts - who are all magnificent.
I agree with your post. And if they keep choosing their weakened veterans over giving their young ones experience and motivation then they risk going down the same path as Romania. Let's not have that happen!
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity, could you expound on your prediction for Romania's victory at Euros?
ReplyDeleteNo - I am being frivolous.
DeleteBut anything can happen, and it probably will.
Is it a problem if I link your article in my blog, QE? I was going to write something about my thoughts on the Euros team but by chance I happened to check FB and there you were saying the words like I was dictating it to you. Crazy! I agree with everything. It's not only the best opportunity for world class experience but I think Russia can win Euros WITHOUT it's vets.
DeleteNo problem Sasha, link away x
DeleteI agree that they need to give some youngsters a shot,but can you propose a line up that would an alternative? Also, there is no way under the sun that Romania will take gold, come on now.
ReplyDeleteDo I have to do all the work, anon? Your turn to suggest some line ups. What do you think?
DeleteI do not know what others think, and perhaps this is a stretch, but I think it would be amazing if Russian actually did not send ONE veteran and sent a team entirely composed of "newbies". Not one of the veterans needs the experience of the international stage and I do not feel like Russia 'has' to win Euros to still have a strong hold going into Rio. I think Euros is the ideal spot to test out different lineups, give the youngsters a chance on a bigger stage, and really watch and absorb as coaches to see how the game changes once EVERYONE has had a go of it. The Americans have already used several world cups, pac rims and jesolo to showcase every single one of their senior elites even if they are not in high consideration for Rio. It gives all the girls a chance to say 'hey don't forget me, look what I can do'.
DeleteRegardless of whether I think they are a Rio candidate or not or whether I personally like them as a gymnast, I think a team of Melnikova, Kapitonova, Tutkhalyan, and some sort of combination of Kharenkova, Skrypnik, Spiridonova, or Shelgunova would be great to see. Let the girls stand on their own without being under the wing of the veterans and see how they do. I guess this is probably far fetched, but I think it's one way that the Americans are excelling and would give Russian a bigger edge.
-B
Nothing of this is new to us! In 2012 Euros, the Russian team had a similar controversial composition. At the time, Alexandrov got some heat for that and for losing European title to Romania. Now Alexandrov is gone, the controversial composition is still there. I don't think this team composition is the coaches decision. As In London the line up was niether the head coach's nor the coaches' decision. When Grebenkin took over after the historical drama leading to dismissing Alexandrov, he mentioned some kind of strategy which would not be uncovered till near Rio Games. The news is, I believe that strategy is long gone. The reason is, we are seeing a replica of 2012! The team currently is made of non-team composition. Each one of them competes individually. The only thing binding them as a team is the leotard. There is no AA leader preparation. In 2012 it was clear that Komova and Mustafina were the AA leaders in preparation. Melnikova was a God send in the Nationals. That's the reason for her being under spot light. The second AA leader has to be either Mustafina (reliable, judges like her & could get away with a Bronz here or there) or Komova ( as she is with a coach who lead her before to AA silver and has the expirience & could build difficulty to pose above 15 scores). There is no plans for alternatives for the above I assume. Are Tutkhalyan, Kharenkova or Shelgunova in any mix whatsoever ? Who knows? They are there because the ministry requires a team list? May be!. Kapitanova has a decent UB and serviceable AA. She is Starkin's pupil in addition to Ablyazin and Mustafina.
ReplyDeleteEuros are not worrisome even if lost, which I see coming. Rio could be the big disaster as Beijing. Grebenkin would get fired and Starkin would take over and Tsarina Valentina would prevail to make yet another media statement talking about a new strategy, another Olympic cycle smart strategic decisions and more reports with Melnikova training beam under her strategic watchful eyes like Marta Karolyi.
Amen
Alfi
Hi Queen E, I wanted to pick your brain a bit on the consistency issue. I apologize for the length of comment and will probably have to post in two pieces. I am just a fan, but it seems to me that Russia's biggest bugaboo has never been form or even difficulty but rather consistency.
ReplyDeleteRight now there seems to be a massive divide in the fan base of Seda. There are those who unequivocally adore her gymnastics and those who are absolutely turned off to her gymnastics due I believe in large part from her disappointing consistency issues.
It seems that the Americans have nailed this down and save for the occasional "whoops" moment, every girl is exceptionally solid on all 4 pieces no matter the difficulty of the routine. Is there something in training that can be done to fix these issues? I know you have avidly studied the psychology of the sport and was wondering if it is truly a mental game or whether factors such as lack of exposure to large events for newer athletes or poor training tactics come into play? It seems that the Russian girls have very worrisome consistency issues whether they are simplified routines or high difficulty routines. Is there some all great formula that you think could be incorporated into the Russian camp that could fix these issues? While the Americans do have routine collective camps, they spend a large amount of time in private club training. So one would think that under the individual watch of such a variety of coaches they would have larger problems with consistency but they do not. I know Russian girls spend such a great deal of time at Krugloye under national camp I am curious why such structured and uniform training hasn't actually benefited them. Is life at Krugloye and personal stress factors such as homesickness or overwork a factor?
-B
I think the Russians are clearly less consistent than the Americans. I am not a psychologist but it seems to me that there are a number of factors.
Delete1 The Americans are astonishingly consistent, I think probably more so than any other gymnasts I have seen in over 40 years of watching the sport. I do not know how they achieve this consistency, but I consider this to be the remarkable thing, much more so than the Russians' inconsistency.
2 For various reasons or perhaps for no reason at all, people pay attention to the Russians and expect them to perform amazing things. They fall short from time to time, and we talk about it a lot. They have had high profile breakdowns, eg in London 2012 team finals but also in Sydney 2000 team finals. It's disappointing and so an inconsistency fable has grown up. They still manage to win medals reasonably regularly, so inconsistency is only a problem relative to the Americans - even though they definitely could improve!
3. The Rodionenkos are risk averse. As soon as they find a gymnast who is unpredictable they reduce or even eliminate them from the team. Thus the gymnast never has the chance to learn from her mistakes. Gymnasts like Khorkina made a lot of mistakes but because she went to a lot of competitions she had the opportunities to win as well. You have to risk to win, and you are going to lose some of the time.
4. Russia does not have the strength in depth of America, there is a lot of competition to get onto the US team, but less to make it into the Russian team. The gymnasts don't have to work as hard, and there isn't the same volume of talent. In Russia, this is for societal, and economic reasons.
5. The national coaches are managers rather than coaches. They do not have the fiery, winning mentality of Russian coaches of old. There isn't the competition amongst the coaches that there used to be, and the coach training infrastructure is now weak. There is no ongoing programme of research. Many of the best coaches have migrated overseas, particularly to America. America has stolen the march and now leads the development of the sport. They can shape it the way that works for their gymnasts. Russia has to follow their lead, and Russian gymnasts have different strengths to the Americans and for now will always be a few steps behind. Until a visionary like Alexandrov comes home and starts to change things and make noises.
6. The American mentality is now positive and winning. This builds a virtuous cycle of confidence and gold medals. The Russians are trying to avoid losing, and the more they fall, the more they will continue to fall.
Just a few unstructured thoughts.
cont....
ReplyDeleteI personally do not quite care for the gymnastics of Seda, but I certainly root for her and wish for her to succeed and be a part of the team on the biggest level. This is in NO way to say that she is not a great gymnast. She has great difficulty and when she hits she posts great scores that could make her quite an icon for Russia. I just feel in personal taste that her style and form are not as comparable to some of the other girls on the Russian team that I idolize. I know Seda has Armenian heritage, but I do not know about her background in the sport. Do you know if Seda began her gym career in Armenia under a different system or was she born in Russia and trained solely in Russian clubs? I was just trying to pinpoint what it is about her form that looks so different to me than the light, floaty form of some of the greats like Komova and Mustafina. I was wondering if she began her career under a different tutelage that might create a different look to her movement. She reminds me quite a bit of some of the Romanian girls, which that quick, sharper movement on the balance beam, but mixed with quite lovely lines in the leaps and spins like the Russian style of form is noted for.
I too agree with everyone that I am just perplexed why the young girls are not being given exposure. The veterans certainly do NOT need the exposure to the international stage for nerves. After this many years of competition if nerves are that large of an issue than they have bigger problems. The Americans excel because they essentially force their juniors and first year seniors into the international limelight by giving everyone a shot at a good competition. Even the girls who are almost 100% certainly not being considered for Rio have gotten international assignments this year for the exposure, and the backup plan just in the case the "A" team falls apart and they are called up. I am so worried that these younger Russians are not getting enough competition experience. These young girls have so, so much promise and with a bit of experience I could most certainly see them being very useful to the team in Rio. Is the game of holding them back, constant PR nightmares and assignment changes a political game? I know as young girls they are very impressionable and I truly hope that their mental prowess is not affected by the disappointment of not obtaining placement at big events even after performing well.
-B
Normally I might agree with this because I usually wish Russia would send their gymnasts out more, but this year they've been good about it. Aside from the injury-plagued veterans, every girl who might make the Russian team, and even some who clearly won't, has gotten an international assignment. Seda went to the Stuttgart AA competition and this weekend's world cup in Osijek. Kharenkova also got Osijek and was supposed to go to Glasgow if not for visa problems. They didn't go to Jesolo (and haven't since 2012 I think), but Melnikova, Shelgunova, Kapitonova, Dmitrieva, & Spiridonova went to the Stuttgart Team Challenge. Kapitonova also is in Osijek. The only one who I believe hasn't been sent out yet is Skrypnik, and she and Shelgunova are scheduled to go to a world cup in mid-May.
DeleteThat's very comparable to the Americans. I didn't expect either team to send girls to the Test Event, nor did I think the Russians would send anyone to the American Cup (America is a long way to travel for just one day of competition & it is one of the earliest meets of the year). Pacific Rims were during Russian Championships. I wish they'd sent the Stuttgart team to Jesolo, but then maybe it's not great for that group's confidence to get blown out of the water by the US so early in the year.
Actually the real difference between the US and Russia this year w/regards to competition attendance has been that most of the girls who people think are likeliest to be on the American team have been sent to least one competition, whereas the Russian frontrunners haven't yet. Looking at it that way, do you really think it's a bad decision to send most of them to Euros if they are healthy? We can debate whether some of the Russian "frontrunners" should actually be the frontrunners, but it's not like the US kept Biles, Douglas, Raisman etc. home all spring.
I think the issue is that Valentina said earlier that the nationals would be treated like a trial for the Euros team, and then after most of the veterans on the girls' side either weren't there or didn't look great, disregarded that (surprise surprise). But the issue is not that America has been sending younger girls out while Russia hasn't, because that's not true.
Russian gymnastics, in common with much of the women's sport today, has lost some of its beauty overall. It's because of the way that the FIG has changed the Code. I have written quite a lot about this and you can find posts if you search on the blog under Code of Points, or artistry.
ReplyDeleteSeda is quite a nice gymnast by world standards, but the emphasis of the sport is now on athleticism and power. The gymnasts need stamina and strength to get through their routines and the emphasis of the training needed has changed from technique and artistry to conditioning and skill. This is why almost all of the Russian gymnasts now have less graceful gymnastics than in the past - they are concentrating on different things in their training. The gymnasts lose points for low landings and short twists,but not so much (or at all) for poor presentation, turn out and posture. If these latter qualities counted more, Komova would be 2012 AA Olympic Champion! And Afanasyeva would have won more floor titles. All sorts of things would be different ... Perhaps Skrypnik would have a better shot at making the team for Rio! People have higher standards for the Russian gymnasts - if Seda were American or British most people would admire her work for what it is, rather than lamenting her relative lack of whatever quality it is that they expect in the Russians.
We'll just have to hope for stronger Russian representation on the technical committees so that the worst excesses of the FIG are reined in, and stronger coaches and coaching infrastructure in Russia with the vision to improve matters and capitalise on their natural strengths.
By the way, just because I am saying 'we need stronger coaches' doesn't mean that I think that the coaches are failing in some way - to the contrary, the gymnasts have made a lot of progress thanks to them. I just think that the leadership needs to be stronger.
The problem with an entire team of youngsters is that only Seda and Angelina do difficult vaults. However, putting in Kapitonova in place of Spiridonova would be a great idea, and maybe swaping Skyrpnik for Mustafina or putting either Dmitrieva or Shelgunova in for Afan would work. It is obious that the coaching staff puts all of their eggs in one basket and that they just stack the team to win. Obiously the US gives everyone an international assignment, which the Russians try to do, but the Euro team has one first year senior. I agree that Afan and Musty don't really need to be there, but no one can really replace Paseka. However, if there was less focus on winning and more on just getting experiance, then there is definatly room to make a team entirely of first and second year seniors. It really depends on priorities. I personally think that the Russians should keep the veterans at home, and have a team of : Melnikova,who can work four pieces; Kapitonova, who does the AA and is good on beam and floor, great on bars, and usable if desperate on vault;Skrypnik, who is great on bars, ok on beam and mediocre but still usable on floor;Seda, who is usable everywhere; and lastly Kharenkova, who is usable pretty much everywhere.
ReplyDeleteI agree. The Russian newbies are very competitive on the European level. They could make it and win. I think preparation and consistency is the coaches issue not the gymnasts issue. They need to work on it. Biles has had some consistency issues but her coach made sure to manage them. One newbie on the team is a concern. Actually it reminds me of Larisa Iordache on the Romanian team in 2012. Counting out Tutkhalyan and Kharenkova is a historical mistake for Russia. On a separate not, Kapitanova didnt do great in Osijek. Tutkhalyan had a better day. A team as the following could get away with gold instead of overworking the veterans. Based on Penza & Osijek best scores:
DeleteV = Paseka 14.0, Melnikova 14.5, Tutkhalyan 14.6 (Nabieva 14.8 could replace Paseka here)
BB= Kharenkova 15.1, Tutkhalyan 15.3, Melnikova 15.3
UB= Melnikova 15.1, Tutkhalyan 14.7, Skrypnik 15.3
FX= Melnikova 14.3, Tutkhalyan 14.1, Kharenkova 14.267 (better than Kapitanova)
Alfi
Musty really need to be there at Bern, because she need to perform her routine in 3 apparatus in big juri before Rio. to understand why, just remember ECh2012
DeleteHere are my line-ups - not for Euros though. For Rio.
ReplyDeleteMelnikova and Mustafina go to Brazil as Russia's all arounders. The team is then Paseka, Tutkhalyan and Spiridonova, with Kapitonova and/or Skrypnik as reserves. Forget Komova, she cannot even train consistently. Afanasyeva could replace Tutkhalyan if her potential cumulative score on beam and floor, or vault and floor, exceeds Tutkhalyan's best contribution, and Kapitonova could replace Spiridonova if her contribution across bars, beam and floor is greater. It is necessary to make these calculations based on finals, bearing in mind the unpredictabilities. For example in 2012 who would have thought Grishina would refuse to go in beam in team finals? Hopefully we won't have such a major balk again, but this is Russia.
I have almost totally forgotten about Kharenkova, which is a mistake ... maybe you can factor her in when you do your thinking. Kharenkova is improving almost everywhere (all of the younger girls are trying incredibly hard at the moment). Her disadvantage is that like Tutkhalyan her best piece is beam, and Rodionenko has said there is room for only one beam specialist on the team. She hasn't been able to match Tutkhalyan for strength in vault and floor yet, and Seda's bars are fast improving too ... But Kharenkova is experienced ...
Quals
V - Mustafina, Melnikova, Tutkhalyan, Paseka
UB - Spiridonova, Mustafina, Melnikova, Paseka
BB - Mustafina, Melnikova, Tutkhalyan, Spiridonova
FX - Mustafina, Melnikova, Tutkhalyan, Spiridonova
Finals
V - Mustafina, Paseka, Melnikova
UB - Mustafina, Spiridonova, Paseka
BB - Mustafina, Melnikova, Tutkhalyan
FX - Mustafina, Melnikova, Tutkhalyan
Why would you put Tutkhalyan in over Afan. She is mediocre on floor, has great difficulty on beam but falls more often then not. And the coaches have expressed that Komova is in no way out of contention. This would be a better line up for Rio:
DeleteQual
V-Mustafina,Paseka,Melnikova,Komova
UB-Mustafina,Paseka,Melnikova,Komova
BB-Mustafina,Afan,Melnikova,Komova
FX-Mustafina,Afan,Melnikova,Komova
Finals
V-Mustafina,Afan,Paseka
UB-Melnikova,Mustafina,Komova
BB-Mustafina,Komova,Melnikova
FX-Mustafina,Melnikova,Afan
If this line up goes clean and does their max difficulty,they would have a definate shot at gold.
Sorry , but Komova to TF at OG on BB would be horror mess. It will be biggest nightmare in history of AG, remember Baku and WCh 2015 TF :( Now more than before Vika is not team player.... I prefer Afan on BB in Rio TF , or mabe Seda if she can do well under the pressur, coz these 2 is more team players then Vika. You should understand this is more about team interest in Rio TF!
DeleteI like your lineups Queen E. I agree with you that Tutkhalyan is likely fighting for Afanasyeva's spot, and that they will take one high UB scorer and it's currently Spiridonova, who could be bumped for Komova or another UB specialist. The other three girls I think are set, as long as Paseka proves she can still land her two difficult vaults. Hopefully Mustafina will be ready on floor by then.
DeleteYou mentioned unpredictabilities - I think my biggest worry with your lineup is that Spiridonova is the 4th option for beam and floor! Any team where she's not the last option on floor & vault at least is scary. Beam is unavoidable since Paseka does not train beam.
I totally agree with this line up, Mustafina, Melnikova and Afan are the only three gymnast that can score 14.5+ on floor, al the other gymnast will likely score low 14s high 13s. I think that Paseka is the only gymnast that hasn't got a safe spot on the team (assuming that komova is fit and healthy). If tutkhalyan will challenge Paseka she needs to pull of an anamar
DeleteI'd agree except valentina won't pick Tutkhalyan over Paseka and Paseka is superior by far on vaul.
DeleteI honestly don't understand why people are calling for an entirely newbie team at Euros. It makes no sense. This isn't some dinky world cup in March, this is a high pressure team final 2 months before the Olympics! Olympic year Euros is the time to be testing preferred Olympic lineups & how well their routines are scored, not sending all younger girls just because they're younger girls.
ReplyDeleteThank you to whoever pointed out ECH2012. The older girls still need experience this year if possible. For example, I'm not super pleased that Paseka is on the European team after she did so poorly at Russian Championships. But I can understand why they are sending her to Euros, because it lets them see if she is going to keep falling on her vaults this year or if she will land them in a big competition.
I would like something similar to the 2012 ECH team. Send Mustafina & Melnikova because I don't see any way they're not both in Rio if they stay healthy. That's similar to how in 2012 Mustafina & Komova went. Then I would send Tutkhalyan. If she doesn't do well, like Sidorova in 2012, she becomes less likely for Rio. But Seda's looked better than Afanasyeva and Paseka so far this year, so I'd test her in one of their spots. Probably Afan's, because of what I said earlier about needing to see how well Paseka is vaulting since she is basically being put on the Olympic team for vault again. For the last spot, I don't have a strong opinion. It depends on what the others can contribute. Send Kapitonova or Skrypnik if they need scorers for more than bars, otherwise Spiridonova can go.
The thing is with Seda there is no middle ground she either hits or is a mess she can go from scoring in the 14's to scoring in the 11's in the same meet that is a risky proposition for the Olympics. If Komova is healthy she needs to go Euros, for her to have her first international meet for the year be the Olympics is asking for a disaster.However, if she is not she needs not be on the Euro or Olympic team. While Spiridonova is world class on bars she is useless on all other apparatus her spot can be filled by the new seniors who match her on bars and are useful elsewhere. I agree the Euros team should have on at least two new seniors however to leave home Afan for the Olympics is not an option she is still Russia's best floor worker and she is serviceable on vault you cant leave those scores at home. My Euro team would be Mustafina,Melnikova,Paseka,Kharenkova and either Kapitonova,Skrypnik or Seda.
ReplyDeleteI do understand that a few of the veterans (paseka and afan) need to shake off some rust so they should go too. and I like new sr development so sending a few new sr is good. I think they can afford to send half jr and sr team and still win.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing Russian should consider is getting back to attending PacRim and Jesolo b/c of the large number of gymnasts allowed at each. The US brought 9 sr and 4 jr to jesolo. Where else are yougoing to find such a good opportunity to bring so many gymnasts? Pacrim is another 6 slots. Who cares if the US will likely win them with some huge scores? Its not like RU being there change anything about that. But it would give RU a lot more opportunies to 1)seeing team chemistry and performance 2)allow for more international spots so everyone can have more experience young or old... Its too bad that in Olympic year, they only have 1 major international team competition.
And yes. new sr development should always b welcomed otherwise, see Romania...
Just a few thoughts, the year after the Olympics the Worlds is exceptionally important to have your key gymnast for the build up for the next four years. During four years a lot can happen but get the first year seniors in the first year after Olympics. Russia hasn't had this much choices in a long time, which is optimistic. They have to win Euro's for the build up to Rio. They must be mentally prepared to qualify in second place and it seems the WAG team in London and worlds last year are intimidated by the USA next to them in the line up which they must expect to be in each others faces and be able to block this. What is disappointing is we all know they are capable of better scores, less falls and if they do the best competition and be the best possible team it will be a much more exciting competition. I am sure they have a plan and let's still enjoy the beautiful gymnastics.
ReplyDeleteRussia should send only gymnasts to Euros that have proved themselves in training camps. No one should have a place saved for them simply because of past performances. That kind of mentality is UNHEARD of in the United States (where I am).
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons the Americans do so well, and are so consistent, is because every girl has to earn her place onto the team for every competition. The ones who are selected are very confident in their abilities and their routines (and rightfully so). Putting a girl on a team who is just coming back from injury, or who has not had to fight for her place, does her no favors. She will not have the confident mindset of knowing she belongs there and can hit her sets.
Russia needs to send the message that only those who are fit and ready will be awarded spots on teams. This will motivate the younger girls, and make the team more confident. If I were a young Russian gymnast, it would be demoralizing to be denied a spot in place of Afan/Mustafina when I know that I'm better prepared than them. It does Afan/Mustafina no favors either because they know they don't have to show up in their best shape.
I second this also... However I do also have to temper this with the fact that there is only 1 paseka and 1 afan. So unfortunately when you have less depth you have to shake the rust off your veterans. Ideally, you would have new talent so both your old and new talent can drive each other, but if not then you have to give your irreplaceable veterans some practice too. But I think you do have to make them work for it and cant b completely free
Delete