In the end, it was as predicted : Simone and the others, with Simone's teammate, Alexandra Raisman, providing the back up. I do not need to point out that, by definition, the Americans are scoring significantly higher marks than the rest of the field. Congratulations to them!
Aliya Mustafina finished in third place. The 2012 bronze medalist led the competition after vault and uneven bars, but had a very nervous outing on beam that might have taken a less experienced gymnast out of the medals. A bravura performance on floor brought Aliya back though to confirm her third place all around. From her senior debut in 2010 to today, Mustafina has continuously set high standards of grace. It is the first time since 2000 that a gymnast (Amanar) has medalled in the all around at two consecutive Olympics, and if Aliya can medal on Saturday's uneven bars final, she will once again be Russia's biggest medal winner of the women's gymnastics.
Russia's second gymnast, Seda Tutkhalyan, was having a good competition until she fell out of her double pike dismount landing on beam. This was enough to scramble her composure on floor. Her mark there of 10.966, the lowest of the whole final, sent her plummeting down the rankings.
It was a pity, as she had looked determined and engaged right up to the moment of her beam exit. At the present moment, Seda is a much better team than individual gymnast. There is no shame in making mistakes and a determined gymnast like her will learn from this, but it is a hard lesson to have to learn at your first all around final in the Olympics. As master coach Rotstorotsky said, it is the coach's job to fashion armour plating for a young gymnast. The coaches will have to take responsibility, and build her back up again, as Russia's future fortunes rest disproportionately on her shoulders.
I'm pleased for Aliya that she kept the bronze medal, confirming that she has maintained herself in the world's top three all around since 2010. But that 'pleased' is somewhat moderated by a feeling of sadness. What if Alexandrov had been able to stay? What if she had never suffered those injuries? What will happen now that Mustafina has finished her reign of Russia; who will carry the burden of captaining the team? And what will our big competitions be like without her elegance, humour and style? Who will take up her mantle? There is a vacuum at the very highest level of the sport in Russia and it is hard to see who will provide the momentum for the team in future ...
I wouldn't mind seeing Aliya as Russian team coach in coming years - she would be fantastic on the floor with the gymnasts, supporting, encouraging and cajoling them to greater efforts. But before that, I really think she needs, deserves that break she keeps speaking about.
Tears, of both joy and disappointment, flowed profusely today. Some screen caps for you below.
Anyone found the all around boring? Look how interesting the men's all around final became when Oleg came real close to challenging Uchimura. Similarly, Vika and Gabby fought till the end last year. This year, the result was inevitable. Other nations really need to stress on physical conditioning and deal with the FIG code that rewards high risk and difficulty. Otherwise, we are in for very predictable competitions :(
ReplyDeleteI was more upset with the BBC broadcast honestly, the competition for me isn't so much about who wins, I'd like to have seen many routines that weren't shown, I didn't see Vanessa Ferrari, Eythora, J. Lo, Isabela Onyshko, Lieke Wevers ... they have this thing for showing the anxious faces of gymnasts waiting for scores instead of showing more routines.
DeleteTo be honest the same thing happened in 2012, they only showed the top 4 gymnasts as if the rest didn't exist, many of which are strong contenders for event finals.
Exactly, I didn't even watch the AA final, and I right away knew before I even opened google to check my predictions, that first was to Simone, second was to Aly. I didn't even watch the actual competition for women's. I just knew US was going to be first. What did surprise me however, was how well Russia competed (and the fact they won silver!!!)
DeleteThe men's was much better, and I actually watched the whole thing. Likewise for the men's team competition.
Sorry, I'd rather Aliya fell fighting for silver than did what she did. It really is time for her to retire.
ReplyDeleteDo what? What did she do? She worked her ass off to get on that podium. She came back from what is usually a career ending injury and brought this team together. She fought for all she had. Her floor is and never was as difficult as Alys. She is thrilled with her bronze. be thrilled for her.
DeleteI'm scratching my head right now...Aliya did the best she could. Gold was never on her mind because everyone knew that was Simone's to lose. Aliya was great and had it not been for a few mistakes on beam and floor, she easily would have secured silver. Also, Mustafina probably will retire and not because she is doing bad, but because she has literally done everything she could for Russia. Do not pity her, celebrate her. This result was good when NO ONE expected her to even be in the AA final.
DeleteSure gold and silver were an almost given, but I was happy for Aliya. Had to hope she did enough on floor to pass Chunsong. Very close finish there. That was the part of the event that was most certainly not boring, the battle for the bronze was intense. Happy for my Canadien neighor Ellie Black. 5th place, best finsih ever I believe for Canada in Olympic AA.
ReplyDeleteTodd
I am so happy for Aliya. After bars I was excited for Aliya, hoping that she would be able to get a silver. However, once she missed her requirement on beam, I knew that Raisman had silver in the bag. For the rest of the competition I agree it was a bit boring. However, when Chunsong's ub score came up, I got nervous for Aliya. Only then did I realize the race for bronze was quite close and Aliya, similarly to Whitlock just had to anxiously wait for the other contenders to narrowly miss the mark. In the end, this was the women's competition I enjoyed the most so far, as I feel everyone scored as they should have and the medalist all deserve their placements. Hopefully, Seda emerges into a great leader for Russia in the next quad. Despite her falls today, I must say that I'm impressed with how she competed throughout this competition as a whole. On a side note,thank God, those from the Alexandrov era still have gas left in the tank, because if not this Olympics may have turned out similarly to the one in '08 for Russia.
ReplyDeleteThose from the Alexandrov era? I don't think Paseka would like to be included, neither her coach Uliankina. Who else is from the Alexandrov era?
DeleteCongratulations Mustafina! Seda did better than most expected. I don't agree that she will be next dominant Russian. Melnikova has more promise and hopefully will learn from this experience.
ReplyDeleteI for one am glad to see Mustafina retire after she wins gold on UB tomorrow. She deserves happiness and personal growth outside of the gym. Her body could use it too.
Contrary to those who dread this, I'm excited to see the upcoming gymnast like iliankova, Eramina etc. Also Shelgunova, Kapitanova are promising. Who knows Komova, Afan and (gasp) Nabieva may do a Ponor and ressurect.
The future is not as dire for Russian gymnastics as it is for China and Romania.
She didn't say she was going to retire though. She has yet to make that decision.
DeleteI 100% fully expect Komova to continue to be a force in Russian and international gymnastics. She just doesn't seem to be done yet.
DeleteI really enjoyed the competition. It was not boring at all to me. I am American, but love watching all the gymnasts because I have always loved the sport of gymnastics. I was hoping Seda would do much better, and also Shang (she is due a World Championship or Olympics individual medal (still feel sad for Mao Yi)), Andrade, but there were only three medals to be given. I was hoping Gabby Douglas would get a chance to defend her title, but it was not meant to be. I have always liked Aliya Mustafina, but she gained even more respect after the team and all-around competitions (she is a true leader, and seems more mentally mature than in London); she will definitely be missed when she retires. I am so happy for Simone. I wonder if she will continue to compete into the next Olympic quad? I am looking forward to seeing Angelina Melnikova and Seda T. compete in the coming years, as well as the others I have read about.
ReplyDeleteI firmly believe had she not been injured and set back so many times Aliya would be a 2x Olympic AA champ even with the Americans as they are. The Americans are all pretty forgettable. Faceless power machines and nothing else while Aliya is close to a prefect balance
ReplyDeleteIf the bars event is judged fairly then Aliya should repeat as champion again with ease but the judges are so far up the Americans butts that I worry she won't and Madison will win.
Absolutely agree. Aliya and all gymnastics fans were robbed from her. Aliya should have been the queen of her era.
Deleteabsolutely agree. She should have been the queen of her era without doubt. She was robbed from this and we were robbed from a true artistic gymnast. Congratulations to Simone, but I can't see her as a real gymnast. If I buy a ticket to the Swan's lake, I don't want to see breakdance. And also agree with your comments on bars. Let's hope, queen Aliya shows her greatness to the world. But whatever comes at the end, with her two medals she has absolutely shown that greatness. Especially, if we realize that she wanted to retire some months ago.
DeleteWith all due respect, and I consider myself a Russian "stan" Simone, Aly, Gabby, and Maroney are FAR from faceless
DeleteYeah I agree, it's unfair to call them all faceless. Simone is quite special in her own right. Aliya is one of my all-time favorite gymnasts but she'd have had a hard time challenging her even if she'd stayed healthy. As it was I knew she'd be able to absorb a big error after the first two rotations, but I wish it hadn't come to that. Beam just hasn't been her friend this week.
DeleteACL tore and injuries is what prevented Aliya from taking home the Gold in London and Rio but her result was beyond awesome. If she competed with an Amanar, BB like in Europeans, and 2012 FX, she would've taken home the gold.
DeleteMustafina is the only Russian name I can remember from the Russian team and I'm a former gymnast. Finesse is nothing without execution. Your Russians look beautiful falling off the beam. Khorkina would be ashamed. Clearly your politics have gotten in the way.
DeleteIs anyone still expecting Aliya to do an Amanar? Let it go, that was 2010, I mean, 6 years ago
DeleteI'm a fan of Russian gymnastics, but this is complete disrespect to the other gymnasts who worked hard for their accomplishments. If Aliya didnt tear her ACL in 2010 she still wouldn't have won gold in London. She fell off beam not VT. It was Komova's to lose that year, and she didn't hit VT. Simone is by far the best. Comparing her to Aliya is a travesty even a healthy Aliya can't compete. If Douglas was allowed to compete without the two country rule, Aliya would never have medaled. That's a fact. Aliya may be good, but Khorkina was better.
DeleteMustafina would have beaten Biles. Mustafina all around result from Worlds 2010:
DeleteAliya Mustafina (RUS) 15.666 15.300 15.033 15.033 61.032
That’s 1 point behind Simone. Her bars increased by 0.4 today, so she only needed 0.6 more in BB+FX to get it. That is completely doable considering the spins she can do today.
So in summary: if she had kept her Amanar, kept her BB, kept her tumbling and developed her spins, she would have beaten Simone. And if she had been healthy, she would probably have been able to increase her difficulty on beam and in tumbling (at some point she could do 3.5, whip+whip+double arabian+jump).
And if you think Biles would win in execution, not really. If Aliya could have competed healthy, the judges would be forced to take artistry deductions from Biles, or to give artistry boosts to Aliya if you think that is more politically correct to say. Because she (Aliya) could do similar difficulty but with elegance and grace. It’s the same as in London 2012: the judges wanted to give it to Komova but she botched her vault, so giving the gold to her (which she deserved) would be “politically incorrect”. If Aliya had similar difficulty to Biles AND executed well, she would get the gold IMO.
if pigs could fly too, they'd be all over the sky. this post is probably the most ridiculous thing i've read this week (and I've read a lot of ridiculous things this week)
Delete"Mustafina would have beaten biles," lol. Yes, and I can do a five and a half twisting yurchenko. A Russian gymnastics fan I am, but that's far reaching. Simone's success not only comes from her skills, but also from her consistency. We all know all Russians are far from being consistent. So, no. I'd like to agree with you, but you're just delusional. That 61.032 total comes before 2012. It is 2016, and rules/numbers have changed. Calculate her performance from 2010 using the 2016 COP, and come back here with your delusion again.
DeleteI read somewhere that you pretty much have to deduct 2.4 points from the total beam, floor, and ub after each quad because of COP changes. Then you also have to devalue the vt. That's how you can compare Simone to Mustafinas 2010 AA score. So her score would've been 58.432 not even good for bronze.
DeleteGood catch on the vault D score being 6.3 now and 6.5 then.
Delete"What if" games can be fun, so here it goes for Aliya.
15.4 for Amanar vault (even her best Amanar back then had form errors including often landing her feet while her body was still twisting, which is very scary), 15.9 for UB (give her a score closer to her best so far), 15.1 beam (which I think is better than any beam score for her this quad), 15.0 floor (same as above). = 61.4. She still needs to find 0.8 to beat Simone. Would have been enough for silver though.
Todd
You were right with the vault, but you also had to deduct .8 (2.4 total) from the other apparatus due to COP changes. So her total during 2010 AA is 61.032, you subtract 2.4 and .2, you get 58.432. Not counting the fact that there are additional deductions. So there really is no way she could have beaten neither Douglas nor Simone. Her score is not even good enough for a bronze.
DeleteThey need to start from scratch and think of a better coaching method that would prevent more injuries. It is very important that they hone the talents of the new and younger gymnasts so they won't rely on the injured veterans to do the job. If this continues, Russia will fade in the entire artistic gymnastics zone like Romania. If the coaching is done well in Russia, they'd definitely have oversupply of talented and high level gymnasts that are ready to compete in a big international stages.
ReplyDeleteYes, I found the women's AA boring compared to the men. The reason is because men's gymnastics is much more competitive than women's gymnastics right now. There were legitimately 7-8 guys who could have won an AA medal.
ReplyDeleteOn the women's side, the Americans are so dominant even Americans find it boring to watch. It's not the code that's to blame. Men's programs from many different countries find a way to train to the code. And many different body types excel under the code for men's gymnastics.
Only American women seemingly know how to train to the code. The code makes men's gymnastics more exciting, while the code kills women's gymnastics. All I can deduce from watching today's AA is that American women have much, much more power than anyone else in the world. Yet, it's not power alone that wins. Steingruber has plenty of power, but it's not enough.
I can't figure it out why there is such a gap in women's gymnastics right now.
I was thrilled with the power but I cannot get used to Douglas', Raisman's or Simone's feet. They seem to me athletes rather than gymnasts.
DeleteThe judges tend to overscore power and to impose this kind of gymnastics. When they have to score bars, they usually forget that it's not only about power. Biles and Raisman were overscored on this event, as well as on vault.
That is a bizarre thing to say. A gymnast is an athlete by definition. It's a useless contrast to make.
DeleteI thought it was over when Aliya missed her flight series, I was hoping she'd have a plan B for the occasion, I'm so glad she really pulled it out on floor, her pirouettes and musicality were perfect, yes people are complaining she dropped her heel a bit too early but it didn't touch the floor so it got credited as it should, gymnastics became much about powerful tumbling so I'm glad different qualities are appreciated.
ReplyDeleteEythora like Mustafina has a competitive floor routine with 3 tumbling passes, I'm glad the code of points allow for that, gymnasts that are overly muscular incur less risks of getting injured but no Russian has that body type at the moment, the junior everyone is talking about Elena Eremina is another graceful gymnast with dancer qualities, I hope to see her pirouetting rather than power tumbling, it will also give her a better chance at a long career.
Greeting to Russia WAG, bronze team and all-around
I agree with the statement above! This code is working for the men, but NOT for the women.
ReplyDeleteI am so happy for Aliya - she did her best considering all of her injuries.
I saw a gymnastics documentary on BBC some years ago, I think right before the 2012 Olympics. One of the commentators mentioned that what initially brought attention to WAG at the Olympics was how the women turned a sport that was all about men and athletics into dance and female artistry.I think this supports your claim that this code works for the men but not entirely for them women. With the men they've always been about pushing physical limits, which the COP rewards. Unfortunately for the women it doesn't do as much for artistry which is what put WAG on the map in the first place.
DeleteHere's the link to the video, it's short: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpKB25BLeZM
I don't think the major problem is the code of points. In fact, it's the consistency that prevents Russia from taking home a team title at WC and Olympics. Komova had the most d-score in London (Although she was robbed) and can win UB and BB but fell short during EF. Aliya's consistency deserves great results. That's what Russia needs so they can perform difficult routine without fall.
DeleteKim W - exactly, it is all about the D-score. The current COP doesn't separate gymnasts like Komova and Raisman. All the matters is the D score. No gymnast is rewarded for their artistry and elegance, extension, flexibility, lines, etc. I think these olympics have proven that the COP doesn't work for the women. It seems that only the Americans can deal with the requirement to tumble big and not worry about anything in between the big tumbles.
DeleteIf all that matters is the D score, how do you explain that Mustafina finished 3rd with only the 10th highest D score (across all events)?
Deleteomg, US is unreachable difficulty and execution-wise, check the numbers
DeleteRead today's Larissa Latynina's interview. She was ashamed of Mustafina's D scores.
DeleteIn fact, I am happy for Mustafina but she was overscored and her floor execution was pitiful. If she based everything on spins and jumps, some of them were not counted.
Well she obviously didn't get full difficulty, she wasn't going for 5.3, she usually has a 5.8 like at Russian Cup, I believe she got a 5.9 at some point.
DeleteThe turns can be tricky but tumblings can also amount to tons of deductions aka Ferrari/Skinner,it's just a different approach, Netherlands is performing the same type of floor structure that Mustafina does, it's a solution to gymnasts that can't tumble, people have been complaining about lack of artistry in gymnastics for ages so give me a break. Mustafina has suffered a series of recent and old injuries that keep her from power tumbling, she has only 3 passes and she makes that up with turns in combination, like Eythora from NL with a 6.0 difficulty with 3 medium difficulty tumbling passes and a sequence of 4 turns in combination.
I was hoping Aliya would snatch the silver. If she scored over 60 like in team finals, she would have gotten silver. Anyone know why her UB difficulty was only 6.6 and not 6.8 like in qualifications and team finals?
ReplyDeleteShe did a Maloney instead of her Komova II so she lost 0.1 in the skill difficulty and another 0.1 for the connection being between lower difficulty skills.
DeleteThe what ifs don't matter now, as it as already happened, no use wondering. would I have liked to see her still working with Alexandrov? of course, I loved their dynamic, but they still communicate which is great. She has done a wonderful job throughout the years with everything that has been thrown her way. She is similar to my favourite Khorkina, the grit, drive and determination to see things through and do her best.
ReplyDeleteThe Russian program does need to change, starting from the top. They need someone new to reinvigorate the program. They have some good young gymnasts coming up, so we will see how they fare. I am not sure who will take over the leadership role from Aliya as I don't think any of the current seniors ahve the mettle and determination like Aliya. However, just like how Aliya eventually took over from Khorkina, someone will eventually come up and have that same attitude and be a leader. It's time for the new generation.
Now we will see what changes are made to the Russian program, they need to add more difficulty while keeping their elegance, which isn't easy but they will have to in order to try and fight for gold in the next olympics.
If Aliya does retire, she has done a wonderful job and has made herself, family country and fans proud. There is really nothing else left to do. She has carried this program from she turned a senior in 2010. She deserves a long rest and then to do whatever she wants to do. I don't think she will continue in gymnastics, she said she wouldn't want to be a coach. However, she might do something in Sports, like Slutskaya and Khorkina.
I'm happy for Aliya but wish she hadn't made that error because she could have medaled decisively rather than leaving it up to debate, and even challenged for silver. But it's been clear watching her this year that she's about at the limit of what her body will let her do right now, and I'm very proud of her for being a fighter and a total class act as always. I will miss her when she gets her well-earned rest. Seda ultimately did what the team needed her to do during team final and for that she should be very proud.
ReplyDeleteAs for the future - I agree all three of China, Romania, and Russia have some thinking to do going forward. Throw GB in there too. I feel for China but I truly don't think they're being chronically lowballed (they have been getting these kinds of scores for years with the possible exception of 2014 - a home meet), so much as they're not doing the kind of gymnastics this code rewards. Most of their biggest issues are amplitude and dynamics-related, which carry big deductions, including on bars - there have been changes in the way that event is judged since Beijing and rewatching the 2008 final I imagine both He and Yang would have been hammered for their issues under today's code. And poor Shang gets hammered for her knees among other things, which I feel for her since I don't think that's something she can physically fix. Romania - what is there to even say? So many issues there, and many are as much to do with outside factors as internal problems. Great Britain is still adjusting to higher expectations and this has been a disappointing games for their women especially. They should be commended for bringing up the difficulty level, but I feel like their execution scores are sending a clear message for what they need to work on. The Fragapane approach has limits. I like Ellie Downie a lot though and would love to see her be successful at worlds next year.
And Russia's issues have been discussed exhaustively so I won't go into them again. I'll just say I hope the team success for both the men and women brings them some positive attention, especially in light of this being a rocky games for Russia to start with. The Rodionenkos are getting up there in age and perhaps they'll take the credit for the team performance and retire. We can hope!
I'm thrilled for Mustafina, however I really think Shang Chunsong was terribly underscored throughout Beam, Floor and Bars - her vault is weak, but over all she deserved that bronze medal. However, I'm a huge fan of Aliya, so I'm excited for her! Cannot wait for the bars final - I hope Mustafina wins - that would be fantastic!
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you. I think Chunsong should have won bronze. She was terribly underscored on her events. I love Aliya, but Chunsong was deserving of the bronze even with a full on VT. Aliya used her less harder UB routine, and pretty much botched her connections and series on beam. Her tears after the scores were posted was just heartbreaking. Even the Chinese coaches couldn't believe the score. Her scores at a national meet was around 60 points, and they are known to have higher standards Nationaly in comparison to International judges. We all know Russians gets bonus points. As fans of their gymnastics we all know its true. Shang was robbed!
DeleteThings are getting heated, friends - it is OK to have strongly held opinions but not OK to call out individuals. I will wait a few hours now before I post the next comments - and please just take a deep breath before you reply. It is not important to win every argument so let's not spoil our enjoyment of the Olympics by getting cross with each other. Remember we are all here because basically we love gymnastics.
DeleteWhile I think it's important to note that we all love gymnastics, I think it's also important to review the sport when it comes up short. Mustafina is amazing - so is Chungsong - however, Chungsong had such an incredible beam routine, and Mustafina was hesitant on beam from beginning to end - Mustafinas E score was a tenth higher than Chunsong's. I think that was a oversight that cost a more deserving gymnast a medal at the Olympic Games.
DeleteDear Anonymous, I completely disagree with you. Chungsong executions are absolutely poor, both in bars and UB : no grace, no rythm, robotic, bent knees, rigid arms, legs apart and contracted hands. Watch again. For me, Chinese gymnasts remind me tiny children soldiers. That poor execution explains the scores she is credited with, competitions after competitions. Aliyas'beam execution was so flowing and expressive, much better than Chang. It's not only toe point and landings, but everything : arms, tempo, flow between skills and connections. Most of us are complaining about the low reward for artistry, and for once Aliya is rewarded : that's great. Caroline
DeleteWe don't know many things about mustafina's career. In Rio she doesn't mention Starkin or Ganina. We don't know if she trains seriously as the Americans do. After all it was her decision to compete at 2013 Euros.
DeleteAgree with Caroline, I couldn't find the words to express it but I think that's where the difference on execution scores came down to. Under this code there are rewards for artistry and penalties for lack of it, check how Netherlands are doing execution-wise, they were second to the US.
DeleteAlso Shang (due to her tiny body type) lacks height and amplitude on the tumbles she relies on for difficulty.
It's interesting that whenever someone brings up an argument against a Russian gymnast the first thing that supporters use is the "prettier" argument. Perhaps this is the result of poor communication? Because that has nothing to do with anything. In this case it wasn't even true, Aliya wasn't better on beam than Shang. If you like Aliya more that's totally fine but I think there needs to be a separation between the two. Aliya made errors, Shang did not. Under any system she would have scored better if the judges were applying the Code correctly. But they didn't...
Delete"For me, Chinese gymnasts remind me tiny children soldiers." Wow. That's really pejorative.
Mustafina was the only one I actually enjoyed watching last night. She has some shades of the old school beauty!
ReplyDeleteMustafina truly is a remarkable gymnast!
ReplyDeleteThe amount of double standards on this comment section is astounding. For some reason everyone was overscored with the exception of the Russians who were wrongfully underscored on their UB. Are we watching the same thing? There were so many missed hand stands from the Russian team and they were scored so high! The Chinese were terribly underscored on all apparatus.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that some didn't find the women's gymnastics portion exciting is ridiculous. If the Russians were at the top with such commanding lead we would all be rejoicing, but because it was the other way around you all become bitter. This was by far the best Olympics I have seen with such a commanding win at the top of the podium that none of us can deny the fact that Biles or Raisman didn't rob anyone like so many of you always accuse anyone if the lead is only .5 or less if a Russian lost. Other people are right that Chunsong was robbed of the bronze.
People argues that the the COP only works for the men's and not the women's. Are you kidding me? Look at the scores. Isn't the men's gymnastics also called artistic gymnastics?