It was an emotional performance and an emotional reaction at the end - but Russia is now second in the world in both MAG and WAG!
The team did well, exploiting its strengths on bars and vault, and holding its own on beam. Seda Tutkhalyan really showed her maturity and mettle with an almost perfect showing on beam and a solid, if not faultless, display on floor. Maria Paseka did her best ever Amanar vault. Aliya Mustafina ... was Mustafina. Taking her fifth Olympic medal here, she scored over 60 in the AA.
The best work did come from the 2012 veterans, although Seda on beam and Daria on bars do have that special mark of Russian innovation and skill. Angelina Melnikova looked perhaps a little overwhelmed at times - though I personally love her emotion - but this was only her first Olympics and I am certain she will be back for more. Should she have had her personal coach on the floor with her? It might have given her more assurance. Is that hamstring still troubling her? Why does Russia always end up competing injured?
At times the competition looked lost to Russia, who were a little subdued, especially after their low floor scores; there was little of the excitement and drama of the 2012 Olympics. But there is a great deal of heart and sisterly teamwork in this Russian team. Seda and Aliya, both daughters of former Soviet wrestlers, share the feisty, philosophical outlook of champions and Seda will make a fine team captain at some time in the not too distant future. All the gymnasts did their level best to achieve this fantastic result. They did themselves proud.
But why can't Russia do floor any more? Neither the tumbling nor the choreography work. Without Paseka and Mustafina, where would this team have finished? Russia cannot forever rely on the Alexandrov legacy. Change must be in the air; Russian women's gymnastics cannot survive the artistic and technical atrophy of the last four years. The coaches need to strategise and plan their work with more ambition and communicate their vision and confidence to the girls. Alfosov has succeeded in transforming the 'air' around the men's team; perhaps his influence would harness the energy of the women's team more effectively. The Rodionenko era is surely over. Russian women's gymnastics will die unless new blood is found to provide energy to the talent of such young gymnasts as Melnikova, Tutkhakyan, Ilyankova and Eremina.
Every team member contributed to this outcome. China were unlucky with a poor floor outing, but the level of their gymnastics has improved massively and Russia will have to look to their laurels if they wish to stay ahead in future years, The USA were, as expected, unbeatable, solid and ebullient. Congratulations to all the medalists! Molodyets to our girls!
Congrats Russia. Oh Queen E! Let's just enjoy the moment and leave the analysis of what Russia's future to the future. Thanks for your insights and continued blogging
ReplyDeleteSorry . Brain overheating! Yes, glad that Russia held onto their silver x
DeleteWell, you should all thank Mao Yi!
DeleteMao wasn't the only fall. Shang Chunsong fell, but actually I noticed that the judges gave all of the Chinese REALLY low vault scores...
DeleteI am so happy they won silver. I think out of all the teams who competed today they have had to overcome the most obstacles. I hope this gives them a big boost to perform even better as the meet goes on. Interesting to note that Mustafina posted above a 60 in the aa today. If the judges score fairly on Thursday she is definitely in the hunt for the silver. After noticing some obvious over scoring received by Americans particularly on both UB and BB, I pray that this is not repeated in the future events and that everyone places where they truly deserve.
DeleteThere was no overscoring. These are international judges. They are fair and it shows up in the routines if you pay attention. Madison bars was so much cleaner than Mustafina and and she stuck her landing. It seems that if your favourite doesn't win than somehow it's bad scoring by the judges. Before it was the US judges were over scoring and people couldn't wait until they were on the Olympic stage because the judging would be fair and now it's the international and Olympic judges that are over scoring too? Which is it?
DeleteDear Anon, could you go back to Lauren's gymternet forum and stop spoiling our RRG with so infamous allegations ? thanks ! Caroline
DeleteShang didn't fell, that was Mao, the judges were very tight for giving scores to the Chinese team!!
DeleteShang fell on bars. Mao fell on floor. They both fell.
DeleteI thought the Chinese were scored ok, maybe a little low, but their vaults were all low in the air and short on distance, not to mention all had hops, and at least two had low chests.
Watching team finals, it appeared Daria did not have her usual precision on her handstands, but still he score may have been a little low, but I felt it was ok.
Watching US bar workers Douglas and Kocian, they both were hitting their handstands, maybe one leg separation for Maddie on flight back up to high bar.
This blog is for people who prefer the Russian artistic style of gymnastics, but that does not mean we have to be blind (or biases against) to the other gymnasts and their performances, not does it mean we cannot acknowledge that under the current code of points the USA maximizes their scoring potential way better than any other team.
Todd
Todd, I couldn't appreciate or agree with your statements more. I strongly support both the Russian and US teams so I come to this blog for my fix on all things team Russia but at times I get furiously discouraged by some of the ignorant comments that appear here. Let us appreciate the Russian team while still respecting other teams excellent work. I feel like at times there is a glass wall up and unless the Russians come out on top it results in absolutely tearing down the other teams vigorously instead of looking back and saying gee where did the Russian athlete make mistakes. It is ALWAYS some form of "nope the judges were WRONG and grossly overscored the other teams". I understand there are some fans here who have a deeper understanding of the code than others might but the level of closet judging is beyond laughable. A vigorous debate on a particular score set is fine but I find facts are never included...it is simply well the Russian was BETTER and the US form SUCKS so the Russian obviously deserved a better score. It does not build any substantial base for an educated discussion and it leaves a bad taste on this blog. Hopefully we can all debate with facts and opinions that can resonate and really dissect what was given for scores this games.
DeleteThere may be a few instances thus far where scores could look a little shaky perhaps by a couple of tenths to the viewer's eye but in no way have there been any "gross" scoring discrepancies. I think some of the Russian fans need to be slightly less nasty and biased and really begin to dissect the routines skill by skill instead of saying oh I saw that and it was THE BEST they deserved a MUCH better score. I support the Russian team and appreciate their form of artistry but I will be looking for any REAL scoring errors and unless I find them will simply be shouting 'go team' =)
Happy everything turned out well, I was very upset with the BBC feed that would rather show faces of gymnasts waiting for scores over the Russian routines!
ReplyDeleteI have the solution for Russian floor, get someone from the Bolshoi to do the choreo like they did for Boginskaya, dance out of tumbling runs because the useless need to stick is injuring everyone, use the Chinese strategy for passes like Shang: 1 1/2 step out to triple twist to punch front, or anything to punch front tuck or pike or Barani, get on old school mode with lots of combination from passes like the 80's
I love the idea of Bolshoi choreo. It worked so well for Bogi back in '89 (did they do all the Soviet fx routines that year at Worlds? Strazheva's Rite of Spring routine was something incredible also). It would bring something entirely different to the routines, and would be well rewarded by the judges, hopefully!
DeleteNot juts choreography but dance training to have better conditioning, leaps, turns and form in general.
DeleteI read the Bolshoi worked with Boginskaya for that choreo only, I think Russians should do what they do best, that was lost over time, only they can do the real classical ballet stuff, referring to Pavlova's 2008, Dementieva's 2010, Grishina 2012, and so many beautiful Mustafina's routines.
Deletewhy they dont take russia RG team choreographers to do the choreo for them?
DeleteBut there are some bent handstand of Maddi's, and sure this time Rio Olympic is a mess with a lot of inflated E scores!!
DeleteThe Russian team with Aliya and without Aliya are two completely different teams! Congratulation to girls and especially to TEAM Captain MUSTAFINA!
ReplyDeleteHappy Russian girls in an video interview (for russian tv news)after Team Final and Medal Ceremony :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lz8RdJ3Jm8
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link! I wish my Russian was still good enough to keep up with the conversation
DeleteI am glad that RU got the nailbiting silver. Great job to them. Again Aliya made a huge impact. She is definitely a favorite for podium with another performance like that.
ReplyDeleteThis dominance of the US is a confluence of multiple factors:
ReplyDelete1) The other top teams are a lot weaker. This is partly due to injuries (e.g. Russia losing Komova and Afanasyeva) and partly due to the fact that there was a generational gap of good gymnasts in Russia and Romania. This not only decreases the score from other countries, but also makes the US more confident. You are much more likely to make a mistake when you know that it matters than when you know that falling 8 times is still fine. E.g. in 2008, when the competition with China was real, mistakes were made;
2) The US having an “outsider” (Biles) that fits this code of points perfectly. If we were still in the 1980’s code of points, with compulsories and all, Biles wouldn’t even have been considered for training gymnastics. I won’t go into the merits of the current COP, but denying that it has been tailored for the US-type gymnasts is being blind;
3) A training system that is brutal and led by a psychopath called Martha. The US girls are trained for media appearances and behind all the smiles you know that there is a lot of pain and suffering (see, for example, Maroney’s post-gymnastics interviews). Just by the amount of muscles the US gymnasts have (and I am not talking about body type — there are other countries with bulky body type such as Italy and Germany — but muscles really), you know that there is something wrong.
Hopefully, this won’t last long. 1) will go as new, more talented generations appear in other countries, 2) will go as Simone Biles retires and the COP is hopefully changed to emphasize artistry, 3) Martha retires and someone less obsessed and evil takes charge.
You are mean-spirited and envious.
DeleteWhy is Simone Biles an "outsider?" What do you mean by that term? Why is she not considered the same as all other gymnasts?
You state that "in the 1980's code of points, with compulsories and all, Biles wouldn't even have been considered for training gymnastics." Your comment is an example of the worst of those who defend old school artistry in gymnastics. You think of artistry as being about a specific look and body type, not about skills and movement. If someone as great as Biles wouldn't even be selected for training in the sport, then the sport should change.
The US system is the most successful system in the world. US gymnasts are well-conditioned and powerful. The girls respect Marta. They are not abused. They would not voluntarily choose a nickname "The Final Five" to honor her if they feared or resented her.
I agree that this person's description of Biles is mean-spirited.
DeleteAlso to say the code was tailored for the USA I think is backwards. I believe the USA works with each gymnast to tailor their strengths to maximize their score under the current code. If the code were changed to emphasize artistry, to make harsher deductions for poor execution of difficult skills, the US would adjust and still tailor each gymnasts strengths to maximize their score under the code.
In brief, (1) Biles easily would get through any old school compulsory program with great scores. (2) USA gymnasts will have their strengths maximized no matter what is in the code of points. They have set up a system to do just that.
Todd
Honestly, let's not be hypocritical, please. Can you imagine Biles doing a compulsory floor routine to a classical music like in the 1980's? Right.
DeleteBiles is an outsider because she is perfectly designed for this code. Like it or not, her body and training were designed for huge difficulty and amazing execution, where execution in today's code means huge height, distance, no balance checks and sticking landings cold. But this makes it detrimental for the fluidity and grace that characterized the sport historically. And please note I am not taking artistry as ballet or slim body. Being bubbly and smiling and cheerful is NOT artistry. Perhaps you have been watching too much college gymnastics.
So how great can the COP be if gymnasts like Komova are not able to compete because they can't last a month without getting injured? And Komova is not the only one: Afanasyeva, Mustafina herself, Iordache, and countless others (surprisingly few for the US). All getting injured because they need to increase the difficulty and stick landings cold. Russia, Romenia etc will soon realize that the girls they selected based on their previous standards are not appropriate for this COP anymore -- they already started changing the routines for that matter -- and then we will have a great competition. Is that what we want?
Like it or not, a decision was made when compulsories were eliminated and even more when the 10.0 system was changed. The sport has changed completely and I agree, in the current COP Biles and the USA are the best by far. The question is: is the current COP what we really for the sport? Many of us would say no.
I will just end with this interview from Maroney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOx1jLcM1XM
Here are just a few highlights:
"Gymnastics definitely like stunts your growth"
"I competed at the Olympics with a fractured chin and a broken toe/bone/foot -- everything was like shattered and horrible and displaced"
"my whole body was like: "Mckayla, please stop doing gymnastics, we are dying here""
"with gym you still don't have a normal life. I was pretending, but you don't: you are in the gym for 8 hours a day"
"there was definitely a problem there, but I didn't even think about kind of speaking up about that, just didn't come up"
"it's just scary in there. The energy is like, omg, it's terrifying. And you feel like every move is like me making the team or not. And that pressure had been building up for like years (...) They are always "we can't switch you out, so don't even get big in your head". It's amazing how much pressure we are under 24/7" (talking about the "camp")
"I am sitting in the corner, hiding from media, and they are like don't limp, smile and make sure you just look like you're fine, because that's the only way you are gonna stay on this team"
"I've just seen so many people be so hurt, not hurt like sad but like, affected. I was taught that resting was lazy, like you not trying hard enough."
"They make so many excuses for your pain (...) you start to think that your pain isn't real, and that's what got really bad for me when my health started tanking."
"Mentally, they messed me up so badly"
"I was in a mindset where I would do anything for them. I would listen to them more than I would listen to my parents."
"Your worth is directly tied to how well you do"
"I think they should instead of training the gymnasts to their death, try to prevent them from dying."
Ever wondered why so few Americans return for a second Olympics and the few who do take 2 or more years of a break even when they are technically at their prime?
We will just have to agree to disagree here.
DeleteIf a powerful tumbler like Kerri Strug could get through compulsories and score well, I believe Simone Biles could do so today.
Also, are you blaming the COP for the Russian injuries this quad? That is very laughable.
Todd
So happy for Russia and Aliya! I hope Aliya gets medals in AA and UB so sge can retire with a bang.
ReplyDelete