The Russian MAG and WAG teams take their preparation for World Championships in Nanning one step further this week, as key players compete in the annual Russia Cup in Penza. There will be team, all around and event finals.
The WAG team
Last year the gymnasts were rather depleted and suffering the effects of injury; this year the national squad is still short of some of its top members, but has greater diversity and experience up and coming into the ranks, so it will be an interesting time.
Last year saw St Petersburg gymnast and fan favourite Tatiana Nabiyeva lead the all around, ahead of Alla Sosnitskaya, Anna Pavlova, Anna Rodionova, Ekaterina Kramarenko and Polina Fyodorova. With the individual-only World Championships up coming in Antwerp, I remember writing that Russia might well decide to send a team of only three gymnasts, such was the paucity of available talent. The final reckoning saw Russia fare a little better than this, although performance lacked depth and relied almost totally on Aliya Mustafina, who predictably came to the rescue with a bronze medal in the all around, and gold on the beam.
This year the team is a little stronger, enriched with first year senior Maria Kharenkova, some returning veterans and a more experienced field of second year seniors including in particular Alla Sosnitskaya and Daria Spiridonova. Aliya Mustafina will be in Penza to take the opportunity to sharpen her training and competitive edge for October, though we do not know at this stage which apparatus she will be competing - I am expecting bars and beam only. We should hope to see Viktoria Komova on bars at least. Maria Paseka, Tatiana Nabiyeva and Ekaterina Kramarenko are also in the mix, although Nabiyeva has gone on record as saying that she is unsure whether she will train the full cycle; I expect her continued involvement will depend on her results in Penza.
To be selected for Worlds, a team member must be able to compete on at least two pieces of apparatus. No doubt, this is what is behind Maria Paseka's training a floor routine. The requirement could also be instrumental in determining whether we get to see Viktoria Komova in Nanning this autumn.
The 6-5-4 (qualifying) and 6-3-3 (finals) format of this competition means that a medal contending team needs a good distribution of all arounders and event specialists to maximise qualification opportunities and fuel hopefully high scores in the team competition. As ever the technical Russians have exciting potential on bars and beam, but are relatively weak on floor and vault. At present the team will struggle to find enough top class all arounders, although this judgement is relative; WAG is at a weak point internationally and only the USA can really lay claim to deep team representation on vault and floor. The Russia Cup competition will show who is doing what. Mistakes are an inevitable part of the sport, but the D scores will demonstrate potential.
The results of this competition will determine who trains for Nanning, but remember there are always surprises and final twists in the plot. Even if Komova is brilliant on bars, she is unlikely to gain selection for the team as a one event specialist unless her scoring potential there outweighs the benefit of a gymnast who can contribute steadily across two pieces, or is matched by another gymnast who can contribute three good scores. If you are a Komova fan, therefore, you must hope that Vika presents a beam routine of at least acceptable standard here.
The selection may well be more complicated than a simple ticking off of the top six on each apparatus. We may see surprising performances in Penza, leading to surprising selections for Nanning. Members of the national team have been working quietly in Russia since this spring's European Championships, with a minimum of exposure, so we should expect change.
There is a lot of pessimism surrounding the Russian WAG team's chances in Nanning this autumn, but I don't share it - because I think there is a fairly good combination of experience and youth available to the Russians right now, and there are gymnasts who want to prove themselves. I also think we tend to judge the Russians very harshly, as if they are expected to be on winning form all the time while the rest of the world is allowed the usual ebbs and flows of performance. Yes, Russia has seemed a little demoralised at times and could do with more confidence - but this is a reflection of the global situation in world gymnastics where only one team - the USA - really seems to be thriving.
All the same, it could be a very unusual and unpredictable worlds. China are always strong at home. Around one third of the current USA national team is injured and out of contention. It would only take a minor injury to either Biles or Ross to see their team severely weakened. Romania is depleted by the unfortunate injury to Diana Bulimar, but is always spirited. If other teams make it into the mix, most likely Italy or Germany, it will be because one or more of the top teams suffer a disaster. Obviously, Britain is on a roll - but it remains to be seen whether their execution scores will hold up at World level.
Injury is not just a problem for the Russians, but has become a significant determinant of competition outcomes internationally. Russia Cup and the various national competitions will determine who enters the final phase of training for Worlds, but won't tell us who will march out into the arena on the first morning of Worlds.
2013 Champions - Tatiana Nabiyeva - All Around, Vault, Bars and Beam; Alla Sosnitskaya - Floor.
MAG
I will only briefly mention the men here, although I think that MAG is far more interesting to watch than WAG at present. Last year, many of the very top men in the team didn't compete at Russia Cup (see results below).
This competition takes place in Penza, home town of Russian star Denis Ablyazin. Russia's MAG team is composed mostly, for the time being, of event specialists and much of its medal potential relies on top performance by a limited number of its competitors. Remarkably, Russia now has legitimate medal contenders on all pieces except high bar (as European Champion Emin Garibov is injured). Russia Cup will perhaps give an indication of the likely target D scores. Russia and their closest competition, Britain and USA, will likely fight for bronze as a team in Nanning. Ironically, the British team has adopted the Soviet all around style and has incredible depth and steadiness as a result. The nature of Russia's team, as specialist led, makes their potential results more volatile and hit and miss. Selection will be fraught with difficulty (forgive the pun) of balancing reliability, managing risk and exploiting the top gymnasts' potential to full effect. As with the women, next year will see the accession of fresh new team members who may add depth and reliability.
2013 Champions - Dmitri Stolyarov - All Around; Daniil Kazachkov - Floor; Mattvei Petrov - Pommels; Alexander Balandin - Rings; Mikhail Kudashov - Vault; Dmitri Gogotov - Parallel Bars; Pavel Russinyak - High Bar
Russia Cup schedule
26 August Podium training MAG AND WAG
27 August MAG and WAG CI and CII (Qualification and AA final) (WAG from 9 am, men
from 2.30 pm)
28 August MAG team final
29 August WAG team final
30 August MAG and WAG event finals day one
31 August MAG and WAG event finals day two
There will be live streaming and the Couch Gymnast will have a correspondent in the competition arena.
The full schedule in Russian, with times, and lists of competitors, are given here.
You can read the Couch Gymnast's updates on podium training here (interesting stuff!) : http://www.thecouchgymnast.com/2014/08/25/russia-cup-training-day-1/
Nico writes in detail about the men's competition on his excellent blog, The Liukin http://theliukin.wordpress.com
A short training video with the Russian women - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SOrE--rdrG0
You forgot Aliya had bronze on bars too :) As of now my podium prediction for Worlds is USA-Russia-China. China is sending a team where out of their two AAers, one is always injured and the other is scored very poorly internationally, the rest are largely inexperienced and/or inconsistent, and they are short of one strong FX/VT worker as usual. Romania got hit really badly by Didi's injury, and GB are now short of Rebecca Tunney as well whom they were using to bring in at least one big score on bars and usually a DTY as well. I'm counting Germany out as well because they just lost Janine Berger with an ACL tear.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to seeing Nabieva, Sosnitskaya, Kharenkova, Komova (hopefully) and Kuzmina in particular.
Mustafina is phenomenal :-). How dare I forget?
DeleteI think Kuzmina has stayed home ... Must be injury I guess :-(
Hello Queen B.
DeleteI heard some interesting facts around here. Don't know if its only gym talk and assumptions or facts that have been discussed by the coaches and Andrei.
First, for what I got, Vika is doing bars and beam. Her bars are looking strong with potential to a 6.7. And she has started beam a couple of weeks and is attempting her 2014 routine, but so far, they have not seem it on the full difficult. I heard that the coaches are considering taking her to worlds anyways. Even if she is a mess on beam, with a consistent set of bars. It would be good to show that she is " alive" and it could help her build her confidence back. Also, she might not have time to shape her beam right now but worlds its still one month to go and she could be ready by them. So I guess it all depends how she goes on UB. And there would not be 6 gymnast that could score higher than Vika on UB. If she gets her beam back, she could medal there too.
Aliya is said to only compete bars.
Alla and Masha have upgrades, I believe on floor.
Regarding the competition in general. First I think is important to say that this middle quad worlds are not that important, could help build confidence and experience, but, to me, what is important is no to win everything there etc but to build the team, the team spirits and to starting work on the girls emotional, so that we dont see the same mess we saw last Olympics. What I'm saying is, I dont care if we win everything or not, as long as those girls stay consistent and perform their routines well done. That is what Worlds can give us. The main focus should be Olympics not worlds. I believe our girls have potential to make huge upgrades on this next half of the quad but they have to mature as well. Stop with the silly mistakes etc.
People talk a lot about US. Sure, undeniable they have amazing talents. However is this team that good? Biles is amazing everywhere, except her bars that would help US very little. I'm not even discussing the fact that she is working on her max since 2012, that might tire her out for Olympics, because she is doing amazing and deservers merits for that. Ross is average. She is already injured. She has low difficult everywhere. Consistent yes, but we have at least two girls that could o score higher than her on bars and beam, her two best events. Mykayla is so inconsistent. Even if she gets floor right, but it would get big deductions. Her Cheng is despicable, I dont see how FIG would give it more than 8.5 on that execution. Peyton Ersnt Price Priessman Rachel Gowey Maroney are all out. Dowell is injured and could contribute mostly on bars, even then, her execution would never reach Russia or China on it. I enjoyed Ashton, she could come as force for Olympics, but right now she is still too unexperienced and her execution leaves a lot. The others Baumann, Kocian, Nichols, Hundley are average, they are no better than what Russia has right now. So what will give US a great start is Simone, no doubt. But they are not that strong as if they would be if they had all their top athletes good to go.
China is amazing. When we think they are loosing it, they come back stronger and stronger. Did you see their nationals? If the official team is the one announced, Huang Huidan, Bai Yawen, Shang Chunsong, Chen Siyi, Tan Jiaxin and Yao Jinnan , they have good VT (two 5.8 and one 6.0) c high scores on UB and BB, FL is complicate but Jinan can score somewhat good and Shunsong is out 6.3. Not bad in comparison with the others nation.
I bet on China.
Annya.
Fine, but has Russia 4 all-arounders? In a previous post you said that Mustafina was going to specialize. Who are the all-arounders for October? Maria Kharenkova, Alla, Mustafina and who else? I know they need 3, but it would be better to have someone else.
DeleteELVIRA
I disagree with you about Kyla Ross. She is lovely on beam. I was at the second day of the P&G Championships recently and she came from fourth to second in the allround in one rotation. Nailed her beam routine under a lot of pressure too (she was the second last competitor). She might not make it to the Olympics because that's two years away but she deserves props.
DeleteK8 I merely pointed out that Kyla Ross had average to low difficult, what is true, none of her scores are higher than 6.1.
DeleteI did not say she was anything other than lovely on beam.
However, Aliya, Vika and Masha all have bigger D score than her on it. The same with her UB. That is what I meant.
When comparing teams, I do not think Kyla Ross is that much of a difference on the team as is Simone. Simply because there are no Russian capable of beating Simone at her best, VT and FL, while, we have a team of girls that could potentially out score Kyla on her best.
There is nothing offensive on those arguments so chill out.
Anniya
Anniya, Aliya and Kyla had the same D score on beam in the last World Championships (6.0). I know the contesting of those scores was controversial but when it comes down to it there wasn't a lot of difference. I'm a huge fan of Russian gymnastics, I do love the elegance and style of the Russian women, and think Aliya's endurance is beyond amazing, but Biles is not the only above average American gymnast.
DeleteK8
DeleteSimone Biles is, TODAY, the only gymnast above average from the entire gymnastic world.
There are, not even on US, no athlete that could get her scores and she is so consistent.
All the rest of US girls are on the same position as the others talented gymnast from the world. Larisa Iodache, Jinnan, Aliya, Alla, Dowell, Ferrari all can put on scores on the same level as others US girls, Kyla Ross included.
Why are u so offended with this statement? Its the truth, Simone is the only one, nowadays that are on a higher level than the others.
Regarding Aliya beam. She downgraded it to a 6.0 for EF, but her D score is 6.6.
But even if its 6.0, point is, the essence of team competition is having athletes that can balance the scores thrown in from the other nations, so, Kyla Ross high scores on BB and UB can easily be reached or outscored by at least three of our girls. While Biles high score on VT and FL, can not be reached by any of our girls. There so, Biles is clearly the one person on US that can make the biggest difference on team, even if u think about China, they too are weak o VT/FL. And don't mention Mykayla because that girls is a mess and would never get the sort of execution scores Simone gets on international field.
Also, Kyla Ross and Aliya D score from last year can be beaten by a bunch of gymnast nowdays (Mahsa Karenkhova, Larisa Iordache, Shang Chunsong, Bai Yawen, Tan Sixin, Andreea Munteanu) I cant understand why you so sensitive about that.
Anniya
Kyla is very consistent even though her difficulty is average, which matters. So even if many other gymnasts can match her difficulty she is likely to outscore them because she is so reliable.
DeleteGymnasts are so different in consistency to not take it into consideration.
I read somewhere that Kyla is a perfectionist and doesn't compete a skill until she is certain she has mastered it. So her consistency is part of her strategy.
DeleteThere is no requirement for any team to field even one all arounder - why should they need four?
ReplyDeleteIf they can get in the top 3 at Worlds, I will be happy. Injuries are a problem but the most important problem they have is consistency. Hopefully with more experience they will gain consistency. Currently the only consistent gymnast is Aliya with Kharenkova maybe being one who is close to consistency. If Paseka can actually do a consistent floor routine and also vault with good execution that can help; however, that is a big IF right now. Based on Couchgymnast info on Russian training, Komova left early and did not return so.....eh it doesn't surprise me anymore.
ReplyDeleteCorrect, I would have had Romania second but with the injury to Bulimar, it is a bit more difficult and all the pressure on Iodarche.
The most important competition really is Olympics, so if Russia can get some consistency and good routines with high difficulty and good execution by then, things might be alright.
I personally dislike when people make assumptions based on consistency or lack thereof. This is gymnastics which by definition, is inconsistent. No gymnast ever have been truly consistent or inconsistent. Because of the nature of the sport, there is always risk and always unpredictability. Say Musty is inconsistent on beam, wins Gold medal. Say Douglas is inconsistent on beam, nails her routines. Say Kyla is consistent, has fallen three times and balked a vault this year. There is no way to predict what will happen based on what happened in the past. Yes Russia has a problem with mental strength which often manifests itself in falls and mistakes, but I do not agree that they as a team are inconsistent. If they are, then everyone else is because every single gymnast going to Worlds has fallen and made tons of mistakes. It's not called being inconsistent, its called being a gymnast. Not meaning to sound rude or anything, I just think people use the word too often and forget that part of being a gymnast is falls and mistakes. They are impossible to avoid.
DeleteElizabeth, I'm with you regarding this quite unusual year we're having. Besides Biles being an unstoppable force of nature, there is nothing really special o anyone really moving forward in intl gymnastics. Teams are either growing up but still inconsistent on the big stage (GB), attempting to rebuild/on their way down (Russia), stagnant but making the most out of their little resources (Romania), on a transition year (USA) or consistently coming short (all the rest). Actually, besides Biles, nothing/no one seems to have really moved forward during the last year. Things are pretty much where we left them last year. (We're even still expecting the return of Komova!)
ReplyDeleteWhich is, I think, one of the reasons we still regard Mustafina as such a bug threat. I love her, but, by this time in the quad, she should have already been replaced, not only as a Russia's biggest all-around promise, but globally, as well. Things should change next year -with the umpteenth coming from the US- but it's interesting nonetheless. It's in these times that anything can happen.
I generally try not to argue with people on the gymternet (or whatever y'all call it), however, a determined Mustafina would be hard to replace as one of Russia's biggest promises in the sport. I'm pretty sure she has placed on every all around podium she has competed on since becoming a senior, no?
DeleteI agree. People are too quite to give credit to the lack of depth in Russia, rather than credit Musty for her being an amazing gymnast. Komova could have easily "replaced" her but her ridiculous technique wasn't enough. Musty has and skills and the mental sassiness which is extremely hard to find. Her gymnastics ability is comparable to no one of her generation. Having big tricks is one thing. Having great consistency is good. But the attitude that Musty has is irreplaceable and that's what makes her the best. To come back from a career ending injury to be the most decorated gymnast of the olympics, thats irreplacable. And even when a new amazing senior comes along, Musty will still do what she's gotta do because she has the determination and will to go much further in this sport.
DeleteOh, I totally give her the credit she deserves. Her story -and the fact that she remains competitive beyond her teens- inspires me so much. What I meant is that her peak seems long gone, she has barely gotten close to it after last year's Euros. Regarding such a gymnast so highly and as a country's biggest threat -as a gymnast and a competitor- talks about some lack of depth from a country that can't replace her, and a quite depleted field internationally, that her star shines so bright so far past her peak.
DeleteAnyway, I still love Aliya and her elegance, and want all the best for her. If she can keep growing stronger and, hopefully, gain some difficulty and more consistency, all the power to her.
I understand. Yes Aliyas peak, on 2010 haha is long gone. At least difficulty wise. She has been able to improve her execution to the point where it makes up for her "lack" of difficulty. It was her amazing execution that earned her a gold medal on beam, instead of her high difficulty. Of course she has some form issues with her knee and probably won't ever be floor champ, but she could easily be UB champ again, especially if she has an ankle injury, bars is the easiest to train, Hence her Olympic gold :) And I think she will remain a strong AAer, even if she slowly fades away, it is SO refreshing to see girls last more then two years in the sport.
DeleteGreetings, dear Queen!
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say I'm quite eager about the men's competition this time around because I'm curious how they're going to fill the gaps of Garibov's absence and Kuksenkov's still questionable all-around status. I'm also curious to see how Dalaloyan, Stretovich, Starikov, and Britan will do amongst the seniors to earn their place for next year.
And will Nagorny sneak back to Penza so he can strut his gold medals? :-)
DeleteWhy is there problem with Mustafina still competing. she to me is the definition of what i call a gymnast elegance, grace, and power. and to me after Khorkina, Luikin, and Ponor the next legend in line. why is it that people think that when a gymnast turns 20 she must retire.
DeletePlease, don't mention Luikin in the same sentence with Khorkina and Ponor. Thank you.
DeleteLiukin never was and never will be a legend. However to answer your question, no one has a problem with Musty competing. They are concerned that she is doing too much too fast. She has not taken a significant break since the Olympics, was injured last year but never stopped, and just recently had surgery, and is already back competing. Sometimes missing minor competitions is more beneficial than competing, especially when you have a guaranteed Worlds spot. We want Musty to last until Rio, things like the Russian Cup are not worth it with a serious injury on the line.
DeleteBut Liukin > Ponor... why so upset? And you'd be surprised at how highly Liukin is rated in other parts of the world especially China
DeleteThen they are blind because in terms of difficulty the Chinese had just as good or even better difficulty and artistically they were better and there were also the Russians who didn't won medals but their artistry was better than anything Liukin did in 2008. So far I still don't get how Nastia won the AA and so many medals in that Olympics like I wish Komova and Mustafina would have been born earlier.
DeleteI think the only reason why she is rated so high in other parts of the world is because she is "Russian" and "returned artistry" which I think is silly to say specially when again gymnasts like the Ksenia and Ponor have shown better artistry rather than just having good lines.
It is an interesting comment because I think there is a very poor understanding of what artistry is; it is often confused with good execution and form, or, as you say exceptional line and toe point. There is also an excessive emphasis on FX when artistry can be expressed in all four pieces.
DeleteWe have a tendency to describe gymnasts as being artistic without really considering the performances. For example, Komova is often described as artistic, but for me she is actually more of an execution gymnast; she should get a bonus for the aesthetics and superior technique, and the lack of such is what was wrong with the scoring in 2011 and 2012.
I think people like Ponor because she is so very confident. It transforms her execution of skills into a performance of routines with expression. I think in the same way Biles could be considered to be artistic on floor, because not only does she perform outstanding and original tumbling, she also makes the routine into a little show.
Mustafina's bars are artistic because at her best she has such consummate grasp of the routine, and the composition leads to the creation if pleasing shapes. Other gymnasts who possessed artistry in bars included Khorkina, Boguinskaia and Strazheva. Also, from China, Fan DI. I think today, though, China are more technical gymnasts, and I often find the sharpness of line and the staccato flow of routines rather jarring. This isn't universally applicable to the Chunese team, just an observation about the majority of their current performers.
Who/what is artistic about the Russians at present? Their best bar work. I find Mustafina's combinations on beam to be softly aesthetic and I love the gentle rhythm of her work there as well as in floor. Komova looks good but that is because of her line. Kharenkova could be considered to have some up tempo artistry on beam, a la Gutsu, with excitement and acceleration; if Biles is considered artistic on floor, I don't see why Kharenkova shouldn't on beam.
I don't consider Fragapane to be artistic, by the way. She is just too ragged for that accolade, and the break dancing stuff, whilst fun, just seems a bit aggressive to me.
Maroney's Amanar is a thing of beauty.
Kyla Ross is an execution gymnast. Not one ounce of artistry there. I acknowledge her stability and precision, but great draughtsmen aren't often great artists.
Unless the Chinese pull out amazing beam performances, I'm unaware of where else artistry has survived in the sport today. Maybe if Grishina and Afanasyeva come back; maybe if Tutkhalyan, at full confidence, performs to her utter best. Flavia on floor is entertaining and has a lovely turn to her head positions that makes her work very expressive.
Sorry Queen but everything you have said doesn't make sense at all. Saying Komova ins't artistic and she is more of a executioner and say Kyla Ross is the same is just way off. Also, if Biles is artistic for having the same repetitive upbeat routines with high difficulty that gymnasts before her like Johnson had then practically all the past Americans that we have criticized are now artistic since they all meet the same description with just a few differences. Raisman would be added here too.
DeleteSorry, but I refuse to consider those who haven't bother to work on their presentation as a whole (not just dancing and lines) to be just artistic as those they have. In the case of Komova I think is unfair to consider her the same (a execution gymnast) as Ross when she has worked harder for her presentation, lines and dance skills and have both higher execution and difficulty. All that makes her unique.
Also, pulling a show or "selling the routine" isn't really a good way to "rate" artistry. I mean if we just take a look at the current music industry you will realize that you can practically sell any piece of you know what and I don't think it would be fair to compare what we have today for "music" with the classic works. People can argue all they want about how artistry is subjective but the skills and dedication that was put into a work can actually be graded and if were to graded all the gymnasts right now the Americans along with a bunch of girls from not very well know countries are at the very bottom of the table.
At last Komova is back and again we can enjoy the work of a gymnast who really flies between the bars. Here again the Code of Points is responsible for favouring hitting the handstands, which is an obstacle to a good flow in the routine.
DeleteThe Russians have artistry on beam, I don't deny it, but on floor they clearly lack a choreographer (a Soviet one, if possible). All those Latino and Spanish pieces don't suit them.
I don't think Seda has artistry. She is a litlle bit shy.
I think that character and personality have to do with artistry.
The Latino and Spanish pieces wouldn't be a bad idea if they were actually dancing to them. If you look at the Rhythmic gymnasts they have a lot of them but unlike the Artistic Russian gymnasts they seem to have Latin and Caribbean dance training so they can actually pull them off. I think the Russians could do that too but like you said they need better choreographers and of course more conditioning.
Delete"I think that character and personality have to do with artistry." But is not everything and in the case of Biles that doesn't cover everything she lacks and she can't be put in the same place with Omelianchik.
You are perfectly right. Yet, it's difficult to draw the line between good execution and artistry. Personality doesn't imply artistry, but it's difficult to find artistry without a strong personality.
DeleteI don't agree with Ross and Vika being equally good executioners. Ross has serious problems to be artistic on floor. I don't know if she sounds a bit artificial and I wonder if she "feels" her choreography.
Vika's execution is in a class of its own. I'd call her an artistic gymnast too. I don't think artistry has as much to do with a strong personality as with a strong character that knows how to express itself. It surely also has to do with musicality and a sense of rhythm. When I think of artistic British gymnasts I think of Catherine Lyons.
DeleteI don't think any of the British are artistic. The Brazilian junior silver medalist did better on floor than anything the British and the Americans have done in this quad and she doesn't have that many dancing skills, presentation and lines at all. Just shows what you can actually do if you put more attention to that part instead of just skills, power and strength.
Delete