See https://live.fig-gymnastics.com/schedule.php?idevent=6405 for the full information
The leaders in the main events in Olympic order are USA, Biles, Biles, Kocian, Biles, Biles. American gymnasts fill the first three spots AA, the first spot on vault, two of the top three on bars, and the top two in beam and floor respectively. The Soviet Union was never as dominant as this - nor was the scoring as inflated. Like the USSR, America deserves its success in general, but the bars scoring in particular has raised some eyebrows. I am reminded of the 1972 Olympics when the Soviet Union took almost all the gold - but then again in one, bars, the winner was East Germany's Karin Janz. Even in those days a slight sense of reality pervaded the scoring.
Still though, USA's dominance is unquestionable. Biles' vaulting and tumbling took my breath away. America has found its style of gymnastics victory and made it the style of gymnastics globally. Only the Netherlands has attempted to impose its own sense of direction on the sport's identity. It has, so far, made little more than a slight dent in the face of gymnastics as a sporting cultural form, but at least the ambition and imagination is there. Russia could do well to examine the thinking behind what this small country has achieved. Surely, with all their heritage of technical excellence and innovation, sprinkled with a flair for the individual and artistic, Russia could create a new paradigm for gymnastics that combines the elegance of the past with the athleticism of the new contemporary acrobatic gymnastics. In MAG, we see this in the work of Belyavsky and, for me, Stretovich, but the thinking needs to extend beyond the individual gymnast into the global planning of every gymnast's training right across Russia from toddler to champion, and into the competition strategy and programming of the best elite gymnasts.
Yes, the only answer is for our Russians to compete here with dignity, then to go home and think again. The gymnasts do not lack ambition or talent, but the coaching needs an overhaul. Russia needs to lead, not follow, in the sport of gymnastics and its coaches need to speak and live the rhetoric of winning ways if they are to succeed. Strategy and direction needs a total rethink. Change has to be in the air if Russia is to refresh and find its winning identity in women's gymnastics once more. Russia's coaches have proved remarkably effective in envisioning and implementing radical change in many different countries around the world - see what Alexandrov did for Brazil, Zaglada for Britain, and that's just a beginning! - now it is time to do the same, only better, for their own country.
I'll write more about this after the Games. In the meantime, congratulations to Aliya, Seda, Angelina, Maria and Dasha, and good luck for tomorrow's final!
I'll post images of the key results below, but you will find them easier to read at the link above.
I really wanted Aliya to win a medal on BB, so she could have the whole the set( except the VT). Since Romania won't compete, I'm going to stan for Russia. I really hope Aliya, Daria, Maria and Seda could medal in the EF. Angelina has a bright future ahead.Gymnastics are changing, but not in a good way. So far the judging at these Olympics is embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteI'm really upset. Spiridonova got an impossible D score on bars. She did the Maloney (toe on shap) with feet on the bar instead of the Komova 2 (no feet on the bar). She should have had a D score of 6.5.
ReplyDeleteIt does make you wonder whether the UB judges fell asleep after the second subdivision. Kocian's E score is somewhat generous and Douglas just seems to have been gifted. Raisman given a higher EScore than the Chinese! And did you see her beam score, with that enormous bobble? The Chinese gymnasts had a very hard time relatively speaking. Now Spiridonova has been given the wrong D score - goodness me, what a lot of nonsense the judges are responsible for!
DeleteYes!! Daria's D score remains a question mark!! The Chinese team is not having a hard time, Fan's bar E score was a little bit underscored, and the ridiculous thing is Shang's beam E score is absolutely underscored!! See Waver's E score?! Way overscored!!
DeleteIt's quite noticable how little the judges cared during subdivision 4. Come on, Kocian 9.166!?Douglas9.266!? It's just a shame that the scoring wasn't fair throughout. The judges are pathetic, between messing up Daria's d score, to inflating all the bar scores in subdivision 4, it's just sad. The thing that really earked me is that Aliya and Daria didn't go 1-2 on bars as they should've; thanks biassed judges.
Deletecouldn't the coaches petition Daria's d score if it was incorrect? i believe that coaches did this during the men's competition.
DeleteOh I think USSR was more dominant in 1960.
ReplyDeleteBack then there was no 2 per country rule so it looks more dominant than today.
Gold as team.
Gold, Silver, and Bronze in AA, Vault, Uneven Bars, and Floor. Only in Beam did a Czechoslovakian gymnast break the podium sweep winning gold. Soviets got silver and bronze though.
If there were no 2 per country rule today, and they did the vault the old way where every gymnast did two vaults and they picked their top score, USA might do the following.
Gold team. Gold, silver, bronze in AA and beam (If Aly Raisman performs better than qualification). Gold, silver in vault and floor. Bars would be the wild card, they could get gold, silver, or just a bronze. In any event I would say the 1960 soviet team would still be more dominant.
Todd
The judges got more lenient with the scoring in the later subdivisions. The American bar scores were ridiculously high. Despite the overscoring, the Americans were clearly the dominant team. If the scoring were fair, they would only be leading by 7 points instead of 10. The Chinese did get very, very screwed by the scoring in the first subdivision, but they are still the second team in qualifying. The placement is absolutely correct.
ReplyDeleteAmerican gymnastics is about explosive power. That is what is rewarded in the code. If other countries want to compete, then they have to work the code to their advantage. Netherlands is very creative in this regard. I am glad to see them in TF. Of course, the Netherlands's strategy will not get them on the podium. Creativity cannot win against raw power in the sport right now.
Unless someone with high level influence in the FIG changes the code, greater athleticism and power is the way the sport will progress. In my opinion, gymnastics is a sport, and there is no reason to turn back its athleticism. The motto of the Olympics is "Higher. Faster. Stronger." There is nothing in it about "Beauty. Artistry." In the gymnastics balance between athleticism and artistry, athleticism must be weighed more heavily.
Any sport that takes itself seriously as a sport must reward what Simone Biles brings to her routines. If not, then gymnastics is not a sport.
Btw this sport calls ARTISTIC gymnastics, not tumblings and not acrobatics( there are 2 another sports not in Olympic program). To me they( FIG) should find the way to balance between power/athletism and beauty / grace , coz if pice of horror receives in E score more then world Champion on apparatus it is a crime and there should be investigations on it! Plus code ned to be fixed like in figure skating for example...
DeleteRhythmic Gymnastics isn't about power, is it not a sport?
Delete@Alexandra, I think rhythmic gymnastics is beautiful, but no, I do not consider it a sport. Nor do I consider ballet a sport. Nor Irish dancing. They are difficult and they are beautiful. They are not sports.
DeleteI am not the only person who does not consider rhythmic gymnastics a sport. It belongs in dance competitions, not the Olympics.
I'm glad we are having these discussions. We are discussing the soul of artistic gymnastics. To what degree is it a sport? To what degree is it an art form? The code tries unsatisfactorily to answer these questions. Reasonable minds can differ.
Im glad anonymus is not in the IOC, althougt perhaps there are several people with his/her ideas, if so, golf, rythmic gymnastics, archery and other sports would disappear. So a sport has to be a "higher-faster-stronger" practice? what a reductonist way of thinking. Precision, flexibility, physique culture are also sports' components since ancient Greece and many contemporary sports still preserve them as principles like diving. Sport is way more complex than muscles, speed and height.
Deletewell he clearly makes things up when he writes "the motto of the Olympics is higher faster stronger", I see a lot of personal opinions that aren't based on facts.
DeleteRhythmic gymnastics is one of the 4 categories of gymnastics, yes they dance but so do the WAG, the scoring is based on difficulty and execution just like artistic gymnastics.
Although there is a trend lately with competitions like YAGF that award scholarships which are being harshly criticised by the dance community for turning art into a sport
https://newrepublic.com/article/115169/ballet-competitions-turn-art-sport
We will always have this debate about artistic gymnastics. Is it sport or art? Where is the balance? Yes, of course I am stating my opinion. Everyone is stating their opinion in the sport vs. artistry debate.
DeleteDiving is a sport. Rhythmic gymnastics is more of an art because it's more similar to dance. Sport is about increasing difficulty and execution through more strength, speed, and power. In diving and gymnastics, an athlete can't increase the numbers of flips and twists (aka difficulty) without increasing speed, power, and strength. They cannot improve their execution without those three things, either. Divers are not interpreting music. Art is about aesthetic movements that usually interprets music. The aesthetic movements are judged according to personal preferences. To me, that is the difference between sport and art.
By the way, I am a huge fan of rhythmic gymnastics. I will be watching Kudryatseva, Mamun, Rizatdinova, and Laura Zeng with interest. They are amazing. But what they do falls in the category of art--it's about interpretive movement aesthetics. This is why many sport fans do not take rhythmic gymnastics seriously.
I realize that I am American and I view rhythmic gymnastics through the lens of American culture. In my country, rhythmic gymnastics has very little respect as a sport. I think there was a survey a few years ago showing a huge percentage of Americans do not believe rhythmic gymnastics belongs in the Olympics. (yes, I realize the opinions are probably different in Europe)
I would hate to see artistic gymnastics overemphasize artistry to the point where many people do not take it seriously as a sport. Artistic gymnastics is hugely popular in the US because people respect it as a sport.
In the sport v. artistry balance, artistic gymnastics must always make sure it is taken seriously as a sport.
This constant search for increasing power and difficulty is what many people myself included feel is destroying gymnastics, is what leads american gymnastics to come up with someone like Skinner that is rather unwatchable to those that appreciate long lines, pointed toes and harmony. Brazilian gymnasts weren't known for being graceful yet you watch them now after a few years with Alexandrov and you can notice how polished Jade Barbosa became, Rebeca Andrade who is a powerful gymnast has impeccable posture.
DeleteI'm sorry but I can't pay too much attention to your concept of what is and what isn't a sport when you say all that matters is power speed and strength, there are sports that are about precision but you probably don't consider them sports.
It's really a mystery why rhythmic gymnastics isn't popular in the US. Could it be related to the fact you aren't great at it? Because dance competitions are a big thing there hence tv programs like "So you think you can dance" and competitions like YAGP with thousands of applicants, the popularity of Misty Coperland, I guess not everyone feels that rhythmic is an equal to dance or it would get somewhat similar space and attention.
I do have an idea why Artistic Gymnastics is so popular in the US, it's a profitable business and as such it receives huge investment while in other countries like Russia, China and Romania it's state run and gets no publicity, there are no fluffs and therefor if you watch Russian Cup you can notice the audience is practically empty.
Ballet dancers and rhythmic gymnasts enjoy unchallenged popularity in Russia though. You mention RG is about interpretative movement aesthetics but they are performing skills that are scored much like artistic gymnastics, more turns get higher difficulty, the quality of the skills award execution, maybe the fact that it's blended to music might be confusing to some.
You say you would hate to see artistic gymnastics becoming more artistic, it makes me think you started watching gymnastics from 2008 when the US and difficulty officially took over, well my favourite gymnast of all times is Lilia Podpokayeva and she didn't have any difficulty but she won the 1996 Olympics, you should check her.
RIP Artistic Gymnastics
ReplyDeleteThe thing is the Russians seem to let the nerves get to them I think the Russians just need to find a system that promotes more consistency. We all know that the Russians are capable of much better. For example Mustafina is capable of 15's on beam and Melnikova 14.8+ they essentially lost 3.5 points on beam alone. I dont think an American would have simply jumped off the beam like Mustafina. On floor I am not sure what can be fixed the Russians went from capable floor workers in 2012 to none currently capable of 14.5+. There needs to be a significant focus on floor going forward. Also there needs to be a shift in the conditioning and mental training for the Russians. Melnikova is also probably more hurt than they have let on the sad thing is the Russians will need to hit to medal in EF as the bars lineup is stacked. I do not think Mustafina or Seda are capable of AA medals they will need mistakes by others in order to make the podium. In the TF they cant afford another qualification type performance or they will be off the podium there as well.
ReplyDeleteWell something we have been arguing extensively is the lack of depth on the Russian side, the floor line up in 2012 was composed of Afanasyeva, Komova, Mustafina and Grishina, of which only 1 gymnast is still active and although Gabby Douglas or Aly Raisman were also doing floor in 2012 they took a long break and had a paced come back, Mustafina didn't have that, no Russian had that and it ended up with an endless list of casualties and injuries.
DeleteShould we remind that Russia was barely able to send 5 gymnasts to Rio? Paseka had back issues, Mustafina was a question mark, Melnikova's hamstring, Afanasyeva and Komova are out with kidney infection and stress fracture.
It's nice to think there should be a focus on floor but we have been saying that since forever, if there aren't enough capable gymnasts how can we expect insanely difficult tumbling? I see that Russia is actually taking the Netherlands approach, Mustafina cut it to 3 passes and added lots of turns in combinations, Melnikova doesn't have super difficult tumbling and also rely on connections for difficulty which can sometimes be a bit tricky to hit.
I am amazed by Eythora from Netherlands's 6.0 difficulty with a beautiful combo of 4 turning elements, the Chinese aren't exactly the USA body type yet Wang and Shang have a 6.3 DS based mainly on twisting elements, it is possible to be competitive with a creative work system, maybe not beat the americans but at this stage everyone seem to be fighting for silver.
I feel bad for Aliya that she has not had a break - I remember reading an artlcle right before the Olympics where she said her body is in pain from injuries and she looks forward to packing up her belongings at Round Lake after the Olympics end. She has had the weight of the team on her shoulders for over 4 years. She deserves so much praise for everything she has done to help the team and a long rest when the Games are over. With Afanasyeva out, this hurts the team's difficulty scores even more. We cannot expect them to score higher than the Chinese team or the American team when there are so many injuries and illnesses along with some routines with lesser difficulty scores. I hope that the next 4 years are a time of change with in the program, with a new director who understands what does not work and what does work with this team. I hope for healthier athletes that do not have to push themselves through serious injuries because there is nobody else to replace them at a competition. I hope that the athletes that are talented, yet dismissed by the Rod's, will also have opportunities to compete and develop.
DeleteSome of us will never forget the artistry of Mukhina, Tourischeva and Shaposhnikova.
ReplyDeleteLet me be the first to congratulate Team Russia on their Olympic silver medal. I'm most thrilled for Nikolai Kuksenkov who now has an Olympic medal. Molodyets Rossiya.
ReplyDeleteoh yes good point he was on the Ukranian team that lost the bronze in the 2012 scandal, it seemed Ukraine was scratching events yesterday to get revenge over that.
ReplyDelete